I was spectating at a FED girls softball game and witnessed this sitch.
Runners on 2nd and 3rd, no outs and the batter hits high infield pop-up. PU, in error, calls IF.
Batter, thinking she's out, takes about four or five steps towards dugout.
F3 drops the fly ball, and runner from 3rd comes in to score. No one else moves.
Umpires huddle.. yikes.. now what?

Now this can get ugly. So...what happened??

Live ball; disregard Ump's declaration.
Look for new umpires from the U.P.
mick

No problem. Put the batter on 1B and play ball.

I agree with Mike. The PU put the BR in jeopardy and that is correctable. Put her on 1st, the rest of the play stands as is. Then brace yourself for the conversation to come. If you're the BU, the biggest decision to make is, how long do you wait to calm things down between the PU and the coach? http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/sex.gif while you http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/bigwave.gif

Now that you have placed the batter on 1B with zero outs, do you return the other runners back to the bases they occupied at the time of the pitch or do you leave them where they were at the conclusion of the clusterfu**?

Michael

Play stands because the only runner the umpire put in jeopardy was the batter runner by calling her out. All other runners put themselves in jeopardy and if thrown out instead of advancing the outs would stand.

[Edited by Ed Maeder on May 31st, 2004 at 11:39 PM]

Yeppers

here's what happened...
 

Umpires stayed with the IF call, batter out, THEN returned runner back to third that scored. Double yikes!!
Very unhappy coaches.
Umpires continued the dazed and confused look for the next few innings.

.....so they made the error even worse than it otherwise would have been. No wonder they were dazed!

Mike et al
 

Mike,

This is from memory so forgive me if I'm stating this incorrectly, but I thought from other threads on this forum that you've indicated in various situations that the players should know the rules and should act accordingly. I believe it was in regard to the IF rule. If so, could a case be made for calling the batter-runner out for entering the dugout and scoring the run? I realize the PU made a mistake and placed the batter-runner in jeopardy, but the batter should have known better.

As a general question, what principle is applied in determining a "correctable error"? Are correctable errors situations in which the umpire has mis-applied a rule? If so, then what is the process one goes through to correct it? I'm assuming it involves the umpires judgement in certain scenarios.

Thanks!
Randall




[Edited by rwest on Jun 2nd, 2004 at 05:15 PM]

Re: Mike et al
 

Actually, I think it is more often, if not always that we mention the players should be aware of the situation and the number that go with it (outs, balls, strikes, etc.).

We know they have limited knowledge of the rules.

The BR never entered DBT, so there is no problem there, she can run anytime she pleases. If she had entered DBT, then the argument can be made that she was following the umpire's directions (the dugout is where players go when they are called out). Of course, we haven't been told what the 1B coach was doing. If he was screaming for the BR to advance to 1B, then I might have to take the fact that the runner ignored her own coach and placed herself in jeopardy by doing so. It is a real tough situation sometimes and I believe an umpire should think in conservative terms when doing something like this.

Cannot speak for Fed, but to me a correctable error is always one upon which the umpire misapplied the rules which placed a runner or defense in jeopardy. It is the umpire's decision when that should occur, but s/he should be sure that in doing so, there isn't another misapplication or protestable situation coming up. I believe this is more likely to happen when it is attempted to rectify a bad judgement call than a misapplication of the rules.

Tough correctable error. Did the fielder give up on the ball? If so you could call the batter out because the defense was put in jeopardy. No matter what I'd have the run score because that was not affected by the inadvertant call. BR on 1st if ball was just badly played. BR in dugout if defense didn't attempt the catch trying to get the runners to try and run.

Re: here's what happened...
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by oatmealqueen

Quote:

Umpires continued the dazed and confused look for the next few innings.

oatmealqueen,
Did you assign them? ;)
mick

Re: Re: here's what happened...
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by oatmealqueen Quote: Umpires continued the dazed and confused look for the next few innings. oatmealqueen, Did you assign them? ;) mick

Mick,
I did not :p.
They were fairly new.
What I failed to mention was that the runners started at 1st & 2nd, had moved up on a wild pitch, and I didn't see the officials wipe off the IF.
That momentary loss of concentration caused the sitch.

Hmmm.
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by oatmealqueen

Quote:

Originally posted by mick Quote: Originally posted by oatmealqueen Quote: Umpires continued the dazed and confused look for the next few innings. oatmealqueen, Did you assign them? ;) mick Mick, I did not :p. They were fairly new. What I failed to mention was that the runners started at 1st & 2nd, had moved up on a wild pitch, and I didn't see the officials wipe off the IF. That momentary loss of concentration caused the sitch.

oatmealqueen,
Okay, let me guess.
They were so new that they are not yet association members and, thus, they haven't yet gone to your training sessions.
I assume you stopped and chatted with them for a gentle post-game? :)

mick

Can you find new upires up there given the supposed* shortage of umpires in our state? It has to be even worse for da yoopers ;)

<FONT SIZE="1">* - supposed because I don't know how accurate the shortage claim is.
</FONT>

Stat-Man,
I think the perceived shortage does not apply to the U.P., but then I do not have to assign any games.
A few of us are registered, but the left half of the U.P. has very little Fed ball.
Seems, though, that all the games get played.
mick

Re: Hmmm.
 

oatmealqueen,
Okay, let me guess.
They were so new that they are not yet association members and, thus, they haven't yet gone to your training sessions.
I assume you stopped and chatted with them for a gentle post-game? :)

mick [/B][/QUOTE]




Had a nice chat.
They got corn-fused.
My favorite (not really) boo boo of the season was one that I only heard about and did not see.
Here 'tis: Coach sends in a sub to bat with the tieing run on third, 2 outs, after battling back from 10 runs down in the bottom of the 7th.
PU calls sub out after she reaches 1st base on a walk.
No one knew any better, coaches, players, umpires; game over.
WOW :(

Stat Man
We have a pretty good shortage up here in northern LP.
In da UP, there are only a handful of high schools that have girls FED softball. But, more schools each year UP there begin programs.
Right mick?

Those girls from Manistique, Escanaba and Gladstone keep showing U.P. at the LL Softball World series. Someone has to be noticing.

Stat Man
We have a pretty good shortage up here in northern LP.
In da UP, there are only a handful of high schools that have girls FED softball. But, more schools each year UP there begin programs.
Right mick? [/B][/QUOTE]

Those girls from Manistique, Escanaba and Gladstone keep showing U.P. at the LL Softball World series. Someone has to be noticing. [/B][/QUOTE]



mick,
I'll probably see Gladstone at the quarters. Had Esky earlier in the season.
Good teams!

Re: Re: Hmmm.
 

Had a nice chat.
They got corn-fused.
My favorite (not really) boo boo of the season was one that I only heard about and did not see.
Here 'tis: Coach sends in a sub to bat with the tieing run on third, 2 outs, after battling back from 10 runs down in the bottom of the 7th.
PU calls sub out after she reaches 1st base on a walk.
No one knew any better, coaches, players, umpires; game over.
WOW :( [/B][/QUOTE]


Oops, forgot to mention this was unreported sub.

Re: Huh?!!!?
 

I know, I know. Tired eyes.