D3K how far can they go?

[DaveASA/FED]

Ok the old 3rd base dugout and the girl heads to the dugout on the 3rd strike. I know that they are not out until they enter dead ball, which is outside the fence on this diamond. So do all of you let that runner head all the way to the fence, and then turn around and head near the plate, then to first and if she makes it without getting thrown out she is good? I understand that this is true, is this how everyone calls it? Also if she does not come near home, runs accross the diamond from gate near 3rd base straight to 1st, do you allow this or call her out on what grounds? basepath would be accross the diamond?

Also let's say there are 2 outs and the D3K happens, Batter heads to 3rd dugout and catcher sees her "giving up" so rolls the ball to pitching rubber and whole defense heads to dugout. Batter 4-5 steps toward dugout wakes up that it was a D3K and heads to 1st, then 2nd 3rd and home as there is no defense. Is this a run? If not when do you stop it and where does Runner end up? I know that is stupid catcher they should just tag, or throw to 1st, she knows she dropped it! But what's a blue to do???

[Skahtboi]

As long as the batter does not enter dead ball territory, or is put out by the defense, then she is allowed to advance with liability to be put out. The onus is on the defense to know that this is a D3K situation, and what they need to do.

[mcrowder]

The batter would reestablish her own baseline if she ran from the 3Bdugout straight to 1st - this is legal.

Also - your 2nd paragraph is a run. It's always defense's responsibility to complete the out - they did not do so.

[wadeintothem]

Every umpire in our league calls this wrong according to the recent posts that clarified the rule for me - and every coach accepts this - and I have called them out myself.

I will need to find out before next season if its a league rule or if every coach and ump has it wrong.

once the BR commits (a few steps towards the dugout out of Box) to the dugout we call em out. I want to make sure it's clarified before I shock everyone and start enforcing it properly and being the only guy who will be enforcing it this way. 3 years in my present league 1 as asst coach 2 as ump and I've never seen a BR allowed to advance once they commit to the dugout.

This is a good clarification for me.

[FUBLUE]

Agreed!

[mcrowder]

I think there was even a case play on this - or possibly last year.

Let me ask you this - if a girl hits a dribbler to the mound, and heads toward the dugout, do you call her out, or do you wait until they make a play at first? What if the batter heads toward the 3B dugout, and pitcher throws the ball into right field - are you going to rule her out for heading to the dugout (and what rule will you use to support your case when I come out of my dugout to protest), or do you let her head to first?

[Bagman62]

We have a coach that teachs when the D3K occurs if it is not to the back stop and the dugout is on the 1B side, "hang your head drag your bat and head toward the dugout, if there is no throw to 1B at last second run to 1B and you will be safe because you did not enter team area" I have always called this safe.

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by mcrowder
I think there was even a case play on this - or possibly last year.

Let me ask you this - if a girl hits a dribbler to the mound, and heads toward the dugout, do you call her out, or do you wait until they make a play at first? What if the batter heads toward the 3B dugout, and pitcher throws the ball into right field - are you going to rule her out for heading to the dugout (and what rule will you use to support your case when I come out of my dugout to protest), or do you let her head to first?

If you are talking to me... D3K is not a dribbler so it would be different from the discussion (not logic wise but in practice in my league) .. the logic is sound.

I agree 100% with the interpretation provided - you guys are all right. It is being enforced incorrectly and I will address it with my league to find out if the enforcement is because of a league rule or if they are just misunderstanding the rule. If its a misunderstanding (and not league rule) then it needs to be corrected with the umps and enforced properly.

The thing I dont get is this:

At a 14U game I had a BR take one step towards the dugout on D3K then ran and safe at 1B. The 14U (real good) coach who also coaches the 14U travel team appealed to me saying the runner had committed to the dugout. I overruled that saying the play stood - my basis was not this interpretation - but it was because I didnt feel she had committed.

I am 100% sure that in this coaches travel ball games the rule is enforced properly at tournaments, so I cant imagine he doesnt know the real rule... yet he still appealed to me.

So that makes me think it is either a league rule or he is intentionally perpetuating the way it is being improperly enforced in this league.

[mcrowder]

Or .... he's gotten away with that before, and wants to get away with it again.

[greymule]

In ASA, there is no such thing as committing to the dugout or losing the right to run to first because you took a few steps in a direction other than to 1B. I've had coaches try to tell me the same thing. One cretin walked all the way to the parking lot saying, "One step! One step!" as if he was quoting the rule book that one step toward the dugout and BR forfeits her right to run to 1B.

If the BR enters the bench area, she's out. Until then, she's not.

If the BR gets her glove and takes her position in left field, that's another story. But if someone tosses her her glove and she runs to 1B, I'd allow it.

[Bagman62]

AMEN!