Strike Zone Discussion

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by MichaelVA2000

I agree with Glen and Mike. As shown I see "B" as the only strike.

Another consideration would be, where is the batter standing in the batter's box?

Michael

Why?

[chuck chopper]

It's troubling to me that if any portion of the ball, catches the arm pit or top of knee...we still can't decide whether it's a strike or not. No wonder why coaches wonder about us as a group. Can't you hear a bunch of coaches saying "why don't you guys go to school & get on the same page". Its impossible ! Then add to this factor age bracket, whether its 95 degrees with no breeze, or maybe its the 3rd game you're doing that day & all the sudden the strike zone gets a bit bigger. Perhaps all we can do is be consistant all game long.

[Dakota]

Umpires come with all personalities and outlooks on life, including ideas of whether laws and other regulations in life are rules or merely guidelines. That approach to life carries over onto the field as well, whether coaching, playing, or umpiring. Nothing new there.

However, even the rulesniks should have no confusion about the "any part of the ball" notion on the high and low pitch. We are not to call those strikes. It says so in the books, and in any school / clinic you will go to that addresses the topic of the strike zone.

Going by the book, and assuming this batter is next to the plate and in her normal batting stance, neither A nor C are strikes.

ASA Umpire Manual (2004)
SECTION 2
PLATE MECHANICS
FAST PITCH AND MODIFIED PITCH MECHANICS
Set Position
...
In calling balls and strikes, it is generally most accepted to bring the pitch down or up into the strike zone, and widen it out, making sure to give a good corner....

[Dakota]

Originally posted by FUBLUE
Why?

Because the strike zone stays over the plate, not next to the batter.

[Skahtboi]

I agree with the bunch that say that B is a strike, and all others are balls.

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by Dakota

Because the strike zone stays over the plate, not next to the batter.

I dont understand how this is applicable to the discussion. Batter location in the box has nothing to do with the strike zone.

[chuck chopper]

Batter location has nothing to do with strike zone is true, but they are talking about this PHOTO and the location of the ball as drawn.

[wadeintothem]

oh, well in the description i said assume the ball is over the plate. My 3D drawing skills are not up to par .

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by Dakota

Because the strike zone stays over the plate, not next to the batter.

My point exactly, it's where the ball is when it crosses the plate. If the batter is in the front or the back of the box is of no consequence!

[chuck chopper]

I think what is being discussed is in all 3 cases the balls are descending. If this batter is in the extreme front of the box and this is where the ball crosses her at that spot in the batters box..we need to picture where they would cross her if she was standing at the plate. Thus "C" would be chest high, "B" might barely catch the knee, and "A" would be shin high. STRIKE,STRIKE,BALL.
,
But if she is in the very back of the box then we might say
BALL,STRIKE,STRIKE

[Dakota]

Originally posted by FUBLUE

My point exactly, it's where the ball is when it crosses the plate. If the batter is in the front or the back of the box is of no consequence!

OK... whoever raised the batter's box location question was being just a bit over-analyzing, but you did ask why. The why is because the pic shows the ball relative to the batter, and does not show the batter relative to the plate. True, it was stated we were to assume the ball was over the plate - which is getting at exactly the same question - where is the plate?

[DownTownTonyBrown]

C? No way. Never. Drop it down to the logo on her shirt. A part of the ball below the logo and I've got a strike. No part of the ball below the logo and I'm calling ball. That really misses a lot of the zone as described in NFHS (don't have the ASA rules here) but it is what I find most acceptable to batters, coaches, fans, and is easy for me to be consistent. Maybe it's the baseball in me. Calling strikes up around the shoulders always leads to excitement (negative).

NFHS 2-56-3
That space over home plate which is between the batter's forward armpit and the top of the knees when the batter assumes a natural batting stance. Any part of the ball passing through the strike zone in flight shall be considered a strike.

That is very close to a Slow Pitch strike zone - and is appropriate for that game. But I feel that zone is way to high for Fast Pitch.

Any discussion of the strike zone is always a bit misleading because we have a size to the ball (approx 4 inches diameter), to the plate (sides are 8.5 inches long), to the knees etc... and the flight of the ball is not a straight line

B? If the bottom of the ball is located at the bottom line drawn on your figure... the top of the ball is likely above the top of the knee - strike. If the center of the ball were at B... maybe. Top of the ball at B? No.

There is a lot of philosophical stuff that could be said here... and I started ... then erased it.

Pick a zone that your like and can justify in your mind, then enforce it... consistently. You'll never get more than minor comments if you can do it consistently.

[mcrowder]

If a pitcher's throwing that straight, with no drop, I've got a strike on both low pitches and a ball on the high pitch. However, many pitchers will have some drop on these pitches, thus making that high pitch a possible strike if it comes down a little while still over the plate.

(And at the younger ages, I'll give the high pitch a strike too - or we're watching a walkathon.)

[WestMichBlue]

I fully support, and practice the concept of "flattening" the strike zone (pull it down, and up, and widen).

A ball that touches the top part of the strike zone can be coming across the neck or even chin, and is technically a strike, but you don’t want to call that. I want to see all of the ball below the arm pits, and all of the ball above the knees. A typical softball pitch drops. Typical knees are 14"-16" off the ground. A ball through or below the knees across the front of the plate may be near the catcher's ankles - which is what the fans see. Then give a couple inches inside/outside as a strike.

When you have “flattened” your strike zone I suggest that you cut off the four points of the rectangle and visualize your strike zone as “pear” or “oval” shaped. You don’t want to call a strike on a pitch that is a little high and a little outside. You have two negatives (high, outside) and one of them will get you an argument. If a pitch is a little high, but over the center part of the plate you will get away with that strike call. Likewise, if the pitch is a little off the plate, but through the middle (beltline plus or minus 8”) you’ve got strike.

WMB

[mcrowder]

I know I'll catch he77 for this, especially with MR endorsing this as common (which surprised the he77 out of me, considering his impeccable record on defending the REST of the rulebook) on the other board. However, why do we feel the need to create "Our Own" strike zone. Call it to the book AS BEST YOU CAN. Your zone, WMB, creates a league where pitchers will never get good hitters out, because they have to pitch extremely hittable balls.

I do understand the idea of a slightly bigger strikezone when the pitchers are younger, to encourage hitting and avoid walkathons.

But when the girls are old enough to pitch and old enough to hit - call the book. If a pitcher can consistently throw that armpit-high ball on a rope, why do you want to penalize her? If a pitcher can throw a drop pitch that starts at the knees at the front of the plate and falls off the table - why penalize her?

If any part of the ball crosses the strikezone between the armpits and the top of the knees, at any point over the plate (inside, outside, front, back), CALL IT. Don't make up your own rules.

...and you wonder why fans think we're blind.