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Mon Apr 26, 2004, 07:39am
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#1. When is the pitcher removed from the pitching position and not alowed to return to that particular position? Speaking I believe both NFHS and ASA, if the coach has made the forth visit to the mound and now has to make a pitching change, can that particular pitcher pitch agian during that game? #2 In ASA, I believe last year, a rule change allowed umpires to kill the ball immediatly when a player was injured and place players where the umpire thought they would have reached. Is this true in NFHS also?
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Mon Apr 26, 2004, 10:01am
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1. When the pitcher is removed for conferences in excess of three, she is not allowed to return the pitching position that game. She may play any other defensive position, just not pitch. This is true in ASA and NFHS.
2. Rule 4:10 is what you are talking about: "During a live ball situation, when a player becomes injured, and in the umpire's judgement requires immediate attention, the umpire shall call 'DEAD BALL' and allow or seek first aid. EFFECT: Award any bases that would have been reached."
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Mon Apr 26, 2004, 10:59am
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Tom
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Mon Apr 26, 2004, 11:24am
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Mon Apr 26, 2004, 10:24pm
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"NFHS just says it is not a charged conference if the pitcher is removed (presumably by the coach)."
Actually, it is a little stickier than that for NFHS. A. When a coach requests time and confers (talks, instructs, etc) with players it is a charged conference - unless the pitcher is also removed. B. If the team has 3 or less charged conferences when the pitcher was removed, that pitcher can pitch again in that game. C. When a team already is at the limit of 3 charged conferences, and if the coach requests time and confers (talks, instructs, etc) with players, the team is in violation of the 3 conference limit and the pitcher is removed by rule - and cannot return to pitch. D. Because the pitcher was removed a charged conference was not called, thus you never get past three. However, the next request for time and conference again violates the 3 conference rule and the sub pitcher is now removed. E. If the coach simply moves another player over to pitch, or sends in a sub to pitch, and does not confer with any players, the removed pitcher can return to pitch. This is true regardless of the number of accumulated charged conferences. WMB
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Tue Apr 27, 2004, 08:28am
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The ASA rule governing this is easier to understand what they have in mind than the NFHS rule.
In ASA, it used to be that the coach had to inform the umpire he was removing the pitcher before he entered the field of play (at least that is they way I remember it without digging out an old rule book). This year, the book says if he informs the umpire before he talks with any player, it is not a charged conference. This means that the coach removed the pitcher, not the umpire as a penalty for excessive charged conferences. If the coach removes the pitcher before the rule takes effect, then the pitcher may return to pitch later in the game. If the pitcher is removed by rule, then the pitcher may not return to pitch (she can still play any other position, subject to normal reentry rules). I assume that same idea applies to NFHS (i.e. if the coach removes her vs removal by rule), but the NFHS does not give a clear "line of demarcation" as to when the rule takes effect.
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Tom
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Tue Apr 27, 2004, 10:11am
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"but the NFHS does not give a clear "line of demarcation" as to when the rule takes effect."
Actually they do; you'll find it in the Case Book. After 3 conferences, if the coach confers with players, the pitcher is removed by rule and cannot return. But if the coach simply announces a pitching change, then the pitcher can pitch again. Either way it is not a charged conference, but that does not matter when you've reached the max. The next time the coach comes on the field to confer with players, the substitute pitcher is removed by rule. This will not change until you reach extra innings and gain new conferences. Don't get hung up about conferences not being charged as a basis as to whether or not the pitcher can pitch again. That rule basically saves charged conferences for the future. If a team has 2 conferences and the coach is on the field and decides to remove the pitcher, the count stays at 2 - and the coach has saved a conference for the substitute pitcher. WMB
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Tue Apr 27, 2004, 10:23am
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Tue Apr 27, 2004, 10:35am
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Even before ASA added this explicitly, I used a technique for youth ball that was suggested by Joel - tell the coaches that if they have an injured player that they believe needs immediate attention, tend to their player and I'll sort things out later.
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Tom
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Tue Apr 27, 2004, 09:50pm
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"Since no one answered #2, I'll go. There is no mention in the NFHS rule book"
NFHS 5.2.1 "Time shall be called by the umpire (d) when a player is incapacitated . . . . NOTE: If necessary, the umpire may suspend play immediately if, in the umpire's judgment, further play may cause injury or jeopardize a participants safety." This rule has been in the NFHS book for several years; ASA added it in 2003. WMB
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Wed Apr 28, 2004, 05:22am
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