IFR call would like to take back

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Infield Fly situation. Score is relatively close - a point or two. Bottom of the 5th. One team is really quite dominant but hasn't shown their stuff yet.

Bases loaded. No outs. Ball is hit moderatly high behind F4. She takes a step in and then begins to back up. F8 rushes in. I yell "Infield Fly. Batter is out." F4 can't get there. F8 can't get there. Ball falls between them about one and a half feet into the grass. The two fielders are about 10 feet apart and about run into each other.

Runners advance. Score one. Coach says "You're kidding right? It landed in the outfield." "No I'm not kidding; the batter is out."

"The ball was hit to a location that an infielder can cover. IFR is the correct rule."

I would like to have not made the call. Nobody would have cared. The coach was sending his girls anyway ... and not because the IFR call had not been made but because he felt it was not going to be caught. And it wasn't caught.

Obviously the coach didn't like the call because everyone advanced except his batter. I didn't really like the call because the defense didn't get there from their intial position and after the initial F4 stumble.

I had this discussion to a very great depth last year on the baseball forum. The concensus of some very well known and some other very knowledgeable officials was that the initial position of the fielders didn't really matter, how hard the wind was blowing, which direction the sun was coming from, what day of the week it was, a one legged F4, or a very athletic F4, chewing gum, blonde or brunette, were unimportant pieces of information. Their opinion was that it only mattered where the ball came down. "DID THE BALL COME DOWN IN A LOCATION THAT AN AVERAGE INFIELDER COULD COVER?"

This hit met that requirement. F4 should have been able to make that catch. Whether she started too far in, or took a step in the wrong direction, was inconsequential. An alert F4 should have made that catch. In field fly; batter is out.

What say you?

Ooooh by the way. The complaining team went on to score 8 to 10 runs that inning and win by the 10 run rule. Dominance shown!

[Ed Maeder]

I guess I'll ask if you thought the infielder could have turned an easy double play when she picked up the ball. Maybe not if the runners where going as you stated. Hind
sight is 20 20. Sounds like your call was right and didn't have any effect on the game.


[Edited by Ed Maeder on Apr 22nd, 2004 at 03:12 AM]

[chuck chopper]

We have had this argument also. What is an average infielder ??. My judgement counts, and if this was a poor league where ability level is low, this changes my perspective. What was an infield fly yesterday for a top notch league/team may not be one for this team tonight.
.
So in my mind if I did not think either fielder could catch it with reasonable effort (based on ability level), then its not an IFF. In an U16 game, ball hit exactly in the same manner, it probably would be one. In a 9-10 age, things are different.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
I had this discussion to a very great depth last year on the baseball forum. The concensus of some very well known and some other very knowledgeable officials was that the initial position of the fielders didn't really matter, how hard the wind was blowing, which direction the sun was coming from, what day of the week it was, a one legged F4, or a very athletic F4, chewing gum, blonde or brunette, were unimportant pieces of information. Their opinion was that it only mattered where the ball came down. "DID THE BALL COME DOWN IN A LOCATION THAT AN AVERAGE INFIELDER COULD COVER?"

That sounds like some of those guys.

Speaking ASA, it is a judgment of whether the ball can be caught by "an infielder" (not average infielder) with "ordinary effort" (not in an area that can be covered), based on the "position of the closest infielder". In coming to the judgment of "ordinary effort" factors like the weather conditions are valid to consider. For example, what would be ordinary effort on an ideal summer afternoon may not be ordinary effort as you are trying to get the game over during a windy drizzle. It is also valid to consider the age level of the teams.

Originally posted by chuck chopper
In a 9-10 age, things are different.

There is no such thing as "ordinary effort" at this age!

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Score is relatively close - a point or two.

Diamond sports are not your native environment, are they?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Bases loaded. No outs. Ball is hit moderatly high behind F4. She takes a step in and then begins to back up. F8 rushes in. I yell "Infield Fly. Batter is out." F4 can't get there. F8 can't get there. Ball falls between them about one and a half feet into the grass.

Irrelevant

The two fielders are about 10 feet apart and about run into each other.

Runners advance. Score one. Coach says "You're kidding right? It landed in the outfield." "No I'm not kidding; the batter is out."

"The ball was hit to a location that an infielder can cover. IFR is the correct rule."

I would like to have not made the call. Nobody would have cared. The coach was sending his girls anyway ... and not because the IFR call had not been made but because he felt it was not going to be caught. And it wasn't caught.

Obviously the coach didn't like the call because everyone advanced except his batter. I didn't really like the call because the defense didn't get there from their intial position and after the initial F4 stumble.

While it may be a call you regret, you obviously made a judgment call you felt appropriate at the time. Whether the coach thinks it is going to be caught is also irrelevant.

I had this discussion to a very great depth last year on the baseball forum. The concensus of some very well known and some other very knowledgeable officials was that the initial position of the fielders didn't really matter, how hard the wind was blowing, which direction the sun was coming from, what day of the week it was, a one legged F4, or a very athletic F4, chewing gum, blonde or brunette, were unimportant pieces of information. Their opinion was that it only mattered where the ball came down. "DID THE BALL COME DOWN IN A LOCATION THAT AN AVERAGE INFIELDER COULD COVER?"

There you go listening to those small ball people again

As noted, it is any infielder with ordinary effort regardless of where the ball comes down (as it relates to the IFR).

This hit met that requirement. F4 should have been able to make that catch. Whether she started too far in, or took a step in the wrong direction, was inconsequential. An alert F4 should have made that catch. In field fly; batter is out.

What say you?

I think you are going out of your way attempting to justify your call. You are going to screw yourself up if you start making up new parameters to rules to justify calls. Stop worrying about it. You made the call you judged to be correct at the time based on what you observed. You regretted the call, but that's life.

[CecilOne]

1) The call was right.
2) Basketball season is over, unless you moved to NBA without telling us.
3) I will continue to maintain that Ed's "if you thought the infielder could have turned an easy double play when she picked up the ball" is the intent of the rule.