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I was calling in the TAAF State Championships this last weekend. Was the PU on the game to decide who gets 3rd place and who goes on to the championship game.
Bottom of the 7th inning, home team down by 1 run, runner on 3rd, 2 outs. The batter hits a little blooper right over the pitcher's head, between pitcher and 2nd base. I immediately run about 3 steps to my left and in, to make the call on the catch and still being able to watch the runner coming home. I'm in perfect position to see the catch. The catch will be a forward running, bent over to the ground catch. Just as the F4 and and the ball get to the same place, the pitcher swerves to her left and blocks me out of the play. I was almost certain I could tell the ball was going to short hop the glove. I give my safe signal and look at the runner coming home and see her step on the plate. I immediately look at my partner, who was in C and coming in for a possible play at 1st. I instantly call time and go to him, asking for help. He looks pretty sick and said he had a great view of the play, right up to the time the shortstop side stepped into his view and blocked him. So, no help there, he didn't see a thing. All I could do was explain to both coaches what happened and call the BR safe and play ball, the run scores. Needless to say, I caught a lot of grief over this and I had to take it, just to let them get it our of their system and since it was my call. I am pretty certain the ball was caught, after listening to the crowd and the coaches immeiately after the play was made. Apparently the only 2 people who were blocked out on the play were the only 2 people who could make a call. The Home team won the game on the next hit, a triple that scored the runner who should have been out. This makes my list of the "Top 5 Plays I Wished I Wasn't Involved In." |
Just curious, but why weren't you working 3-Person on a game that important?
I have a saying to coaches or administrators on a call like that....."Coach, that was (Insert game fee amount) call." When they look at you funny, explain that the 3rd official would have been on top of that call. In your case, both base umpires would have been "Home" on that play with each having a GREAT LOOK thru the play. Truely a game fee call if ever there was one. |
They were saving the 3-man for the Championship game. All the others were 2-man.
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A lot of the TD's and UIC's I work for have learned the value of the three man crew in these cases. I was working a tournament this weekend where the last loser's bracket game as well as the championship and and "if" game were all three man crews. I am seeing this a lot more often than I did four or five years ago.
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All the more reason for the 3rd umpire
when you get into the play-offs !! I'm boning up on 3-umpire mechanics for next week's regionals here in SW FL. |
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The explanation that you and your partner bothed move to the prescribed position and were blocked by the defensive players should suffice. You let the coach have a few non-personal words and then sit them down. If THEY bring up the importance of another official or feel compelled to take their complaint to the next level, they should be referred to the AD, TD, Assignor or whoever is responsible for the administration of the tournament. |
You are correct...There are no Guarantee's, but I will take my chances on a 3 person crew getting that call correct over a 2 person crew.
As for my comment....In our area, we don't have assigners(Non College). At (ASA) tournaments, we will have UIC's and a assigner but if the coaches/clubs want something, then they will find a way to get it done. Have I made that comment to a coach? Yes...Only after the game when I was confronted. Next year, we had 3 umpires. <b>Begin Rant</b> The game of FP Softball has progressed beyond the 2-Person Umpire System. I believe that not enough is being done to promote and implement 3-Umpires at the higher levels of play. Last year at the ASA 14-U National in Bloomington/Normal Il, we used 3 for everything beyond Pool Play. This year, I believe ASA is going back to 2 umpires except for the Semi-Finals On. Why? Does it cost more? Yes. Does it require some more training? Yes. Does it require some coaches to learn something different about umpires? Yes. We are fortunate in that we work the majority of our games in the 3 Umpire system. It's to the point where we are almost uncomfortable working the 2 umpire system. We can do it, but would prefer not to. If money is an issue, I bet that people would be surprised at the number of us that would accept a lower game fee in return for working with 3. Further, I believe teams would be willing to pay a higher entry fee if they know 3-Umps will be used. I will get off my soap box now......I just whole heartedly believe in the 3-Umpire System. The players and coaches are working too hard these days and they deserve the very best we have to offer. In many cases, that will require 3 of us on the field. <b>End Rant</b> [Edited by kellerumps on Apr 19th, 2004 at 11:37 PM] |
IF I were a coach on this board, I would say that three out of shape, fat, slow umpires would STILL miss the call because the other umpire wouldn't have been watching anyway...but I'm not. I'd work with (and for) any of you any day of the week...and twice on the weekends.
That being said, sometimes we DO get blocked out by players...2 umpire system is based on getting angles on calls. Sometimes we just get blocked. No ones fault, but an unfortunate situation when it happens. The two umpire system can be used more efficiently than it is used now. Several of the umpires I regularly work with will change things up to use the system better. THe only problem is that we ONLY change it up with each other...because we trust each other, and know each other will be there if needed. In that situation you describe TexBlue, maybe we should pole the coaches. Each coach gets one vote. I would tend to estimate a tie in this case...offensive coach votes no catch, defensive coach votes catch. Maybe we should go to the fans for their opinions. They all had a really good view of it (which may be true, since they were probably at least a few feet up in the air so they were not blocked---except by the fence, the guy in front of them, their son who wanted to go to the bathroom, the soda can, the "heat" from the nacho cheese...and an umpire and two defensive players). I wonder how they would vote? We can't guess an out, so if we don't see it, we don't call it. |
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Unfortunately, we have as many "greens" nowadays than we have blues. It is also unfortunate that the local/state/metros cannot necessarily do without them and cover the games being played. Part of that reason is people like the S.F.B. above. If I had one umpire for every ten times I've heard, "No way, you guys get too much crap. Why would I want to do that?" from a person I'm attempting to recruit as an umpires, I wouldn't have a need for more umpires. Quote:
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
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In a "previous association" the assignor would assign two people to two different games. Then he would call each umpire up and say, "I'm sending so and so to this school instead of working with you. I'll find a replacement." And, low and behold, you get to the game and you work it by yourself. Of course, you get "double pay" but I'd rather have a partner than work a varsity game by myself...which is what we ended up doing quite often for this association. |
I agree that the issue with working a 3 man crew on most FP games has less to do with money and more to do with lack of qualified manpower. I am sure that Mike's statistics on the drop in umpiring over the last few years are accurate, as there seem to be less and less people wanting to get into the avocation. And even when you do get some new recruits, retaining them is next to impossible. How many times have we seen a promising recruit not come back for their sophomore year? I know that of the rookies that my HS chapter had last year, only about 15% returned for year two. I think what we really need to address is how to better retain our umpires.
Has this thread now taking a substantial enough twist? :D |
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What do all of you do? |
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This is awful
TexUmp,
As a coach I'm very disheartened to read your post about at championship game and you being screened on a play that impacts the outcome of the game. That is you job to physically move so you can see the play. Your going to tell me these girls were Shaq's size and you in your great athletic shape could not simply get around them or get there quickly enough to see the play. That is an injustice to all of those players on both teams that our out there busting their butts trying to win and the officials that are hired to give the kids the best game possible choke like that. If I was the coach I would have had many words with you and am disgusted by your lack of professionalism and ability to simply be in shape and move to the play. This is dishearting and I dont know how you sleep having taken the game away from the kids. |
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Nah... |
You know, part of me wants to respond to his idiocy, but I realize that it would be useless!
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Whoa there BBallCoach.......slow the train down.
To presume that this Blue was out of position due to poor skills, sub-par mechanics, or failure to adhere to the Atkins Diet is simply ignorant on your part. It IS quite possible that the sight line was interrupted at that one crucial moment which would have enabled a clear cut call. It is EVEN possible that a bug could have gotten in his eye as he ran to position himself to make the call. Certainly there are many things that could happen to the best of the best that would cause an unfortunate situation. Stuff happens. Perhaps you need to step back into reality here and re-assess your perceptions. Perhaps the situation could center around the weight challenged, slow-moving pitcher for getting in the way. Or maybe it was the due to the fielders untimely decision to pick her nose during the delivery of the pitch that caused her to get a late jump on the ball that she would otherwise have camped under to catch. Maybe, just maybe this whole problem was due a freak alignment of the planets that created a gravitational force so strong as to cause the play to develop the way it did. Hmmmmm, I guess it could have been a myriad of things. Next time you want to paint it on thick by using all of those derogatory comments be sure to remember that as humans were are all fallible. Those who can - umpire. Those who can't - coach. Have a nice day Coach! |
Robmoz - This person is an idiot. He posts just to see if he can get a rise out of someone. It's called trolling.
BBall Coach - the board for you: http://www.gmcgriff.com/refonline |
I see that now. I will take that into consideration in the future but I just wanted to respond one time.
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You let the kids down
Tex Blue,
This is plain and simple you let all of those young athletes done by not being able to do your job. You can have whatever excuse in the world for why you could not get into position without getting screened. Bottom line is you failed in your job and that is something you need to deal with. <I>BBallCoach, Our errors hurt ourselves more than you can imagine. Please feel free to contribute or to ask questions, but avoid the subtle, personal attacks regarding situations beyond anyone's control. If you cannot be part of the solution, please don't be an additional problem. mick</I> [Edited by mick on Apr 23rd, 2004 at 05:21 PM] |
Well, BBAll coach, all I can say is I move as much as anyone I have ever called with and am proud of my efforts to always be in the correct position for a call. I was this time. The pitcher just veered off and blocked it in the last instant. Until you've been there, you probably won't understand how it can happen.
I can also understand your comments, to an extent. As I stated before, when you posted and it disappeared, I've already heard all that and listened to all of it, due to the fact I wasn't happy about the decision. Not because I was too lazy or big or whatever else you care to throw out there, but because, to me, it is about the kids and the game and I love calling it. I have no doubt there are a lot of "masters" on this board. I would enjoy calling with any of them. I think, when it's all said and done, they would enjoy calling with me. I've never had an umpire request to not have me again, or HS coaches, or regular coaches. Yeah, I feel pretty good about myself as an umpire and yeah, I don't feel good about what happened, it stinks. But, it happened with me on the field and there's nothing I can do to change it now. For your information, the next team to play's coach and 2 other coaches were watching the game and they actually helped walk us off the field. They were asking some questions and I gave the answers I gave here. They just commented that that was all you could do. All 3 of these guys have had me before and they enjoy it when I'm on the field. Same with my partner that day. By the way, if you're gonna rip into me like a coach, at least use the correct words in the correct spots, so us dumb blues can follow the drift of the conversation, OK? |
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Rick, you suck. We all suck! We shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a softball field. We should all be taken and hung by our thumbs over a pit of alligators until we learn to get every call, 100% correct just like the way every coach calls their game. We are pitiful to even think that we are one tenth as good and intelligent as our good friend, "BBall Coach". He is just doing us a favor by telling us how we are the scum of the earth and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near children unless we can call a perfect game like he coaches. It makes me sick to think this troll may actually be out there passing this type of attitude on to the youth of our nation. "Don't worry, nothing is your fault. The referee sucks and doesn't care that he just ruined your life!" And we wonder how some of the kids today get drawn into the "dark side" (and I'm not talking baseball, here) and end up blowing things up, killing people and eventually themselves. Mike |
Just remember Mike, its not his fault he's the way he is!
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Can we ignore the hassling and get back to what started to be an intelligent discussion of recruiting, retaining, etc. umpires?
BTW, let's follow the "keller" (admittedly personal) example and use 3-person or 3-umpire instead of 3-man. How about 3U? We might not end up with more umpires, but the retention rate would be better if we gave more attention to getting new ones out of green mode and getting them to realize they will bring abuse on themselves by lack of preparation and lack of professionalism. That, in turn, might reduce the negativism of those who turn away because of the abuse they see while playing or watching. The bigger problem is the laziness and self-centered life style of the younger generations and I have no answer for that. But that is killing the sport and other participant sports as well, so maybe we won't be needed in 20 years. |
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Actually, I was calling a real small tournament last night, before all the storms blew in and walked onto the field. Guess who was on defense. The team that got the raw end of the deal. I did a double take, almost started to run, then decided, what the heck, get it over with. At the plate, the coach even talked about it, said she understood and there wasn't anything I could do. Of course, it helped that one of the parents had a digital recording of the whole play from behind the plate. They were all fine and we had a good time before the rain ruined it. |
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Sorry about the mess. "Getting you" wasn't my intention, but that doesn't mean I didn't laugh when I read you post :) |
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We got the storms before noon here today. I got in two games of an AFA Advancement tournament. Glad I read all Mikes post also. Knew it was not like him to blast a fellow blue. Coach, maybe. :D |
I feel like I am at the first of the HS season with the weather being the way it is. Last night, had a team playing that if they won, they would be in a tie in their district for first place. So you know that they were determined to get this game in. During the second inning, a heavy wave of rain moved in. Fortunately, the home team had a tarp which they quickly got out on the infield. We all waited about thirty minutes for the rains to pass, and proceeded with the game. Got it in, and the team that won will be in a tiebreaker game on Monday. We started the JV almost immediately after that, and just got to the top of the second before lightning and rain forced us to call it off. Now I have lost a college game this morning, and several tournament games tonight and tomorrow. Sigh....
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Rick,
Checked my rain gague at 6:30 PM (sunday) and had 4 1/4" since Saturday when rains started about 10:30AM. Hope rains go away. Have two playoff games this week. One 3A and one 4A. |
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Have a blast in the playoffs!!! |
Nice weather
It's a balmy 63 degrees today...partly cloudy/mostly sunny. Perfect softball weather.
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GaryB |
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#2 I don't care who has what, it is a judgment call; #3 The UIC doesn't have the authority to change this call; #4 Instant replay is not available at all angles of all games, therefore, is not a source of reference. #5 The UIC doesn't have the authority to change this call; #6 As the UIC, I don't have the authority to change this call. etc., etc., etc. Now we can hear all the idiots who want us to ignore the rule book for the sake of the players. They must believe it is possible as many coaches teach their players to circumvent the rules on a regular basis. BTW, did I happen to mention the UIC doesn't have the authority to change this call? |
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The UIC cannot change this call. (Is there an echo in here... or maybe it's just deja vu... I seem to have a feeling that I've heard that before ...) |
You know, I think there is some sort of a theme running through this particular thread! :D
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Had a coach last year argue a bang-bang out call at the plate on a swipe tag...he told me I was wrong (very professionally, I might add). He still won the game, though. I was at his place the next week, he came to me and said, "so and so's dad had it on video, and you were right...she did tag the runner right before the runner hit the base...good call." Then he proceeded to add, "Tell me you were guessing." I wish I could have viewed the tape, to be sure I was right. Sometimes when I UIC I videotape umpires to show them positioning and such...I also take digital pictures so I can reference them later and send them to umpires. Seems to work. And the UIC doesn't have the authority to overturn the call (in case no one has said this before). |
I wouldn't mind seeing it replayed, either. But not during or immediately after the game.
As a UIC, I have had people stick cameras in my face showing me that the umpire kicked a call. After I push them away from my face, I explain that I will not review the play, period. I do not like to waste time and absolutely nothing positive can come from me reviewing a play. I also explain that the next thing they are ignorant enough to shove in front of my face may be the last time they see that article. |
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Now, as for the UIC reversing my call. As soon as he/she comes on my field, I will consider that a request to borrow my clicker, mask and shin guards. If I know him, I'll let him/her have them. I will not call ball for a UIC who walks on my field and pulls the rug out from under me. Is seems like I read it somewhere, but the UIC cannot change my call. If he comes out there, he/she has taken all the authority away from the umpiring team that he/she put on the field. I would expect my gear back by the end of the night, when he/she brought it to my house. |
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I agree. Humility and humiliation are years apart. mick |
Just have to do it...
Has anyone said this before.... :<b>The UIC does not have the authority to change the call.</b> http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/joker.gif |
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As a UIC, I don't want to go onto the field, but I have no problem going out there if necessary. I will go to the field on someone else's request, but I will not enter the field of play unless there is a valid protest and the umpires ask me to step onto the field. The one thing that I want all umpires to realize is that once the UIC does enter the field, give them every bit of information available whether you think it is pertinent or not. The UIC is going to make a decision, either in support of the crew or the protesting team. However, the last thing the UIC needs is to make that ruling based on the information the umpires provided and then come to find out there was a serious omission. |
TexBlue,
If I came across as saying I would videotape them for the purpose of overturning calls, that's not what I do. I like to video tape for educational purposes (that's the teacher in me coming out) especially for younger umpires. I'm not saying that I do it is the right way, but when I am UIC, and hear that nasty seven letter word "PROTEST" I talk to the umpires and the umpires only. I get the information from the play at least two times, and I also walk through it with them the way I understand it. Knock on wood, I've never had to rule in favor of the protesting team...always turned out to be the right call (only 1 protest). |
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<b> <u> <i> <font:15> A UIC cannot overrule a call. </b> </i> </u> </font:15> Now, that I've gotten that off my chest, I have never had a problem with a coach protesting my rule interpretation. I'm usually kinda amused at the idea. Bring it on. I've only had 7 protests in my career, lost none of them. But this is the only time I feel a UIC is necessary on my field. If they show up any other time, I feel it is a statement that I cannot control the game and, if this is the case, I need to leave the premises. Because, I gurantee ya, I won't be able to control the game <b> after </B> they leave the field. [Edited by TexBlue on Apr 27th, 2004 at 10:55 PM] |
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Tex Blue,
I give you credit you admit you kicked it. Now realize all of those kids you let down, because you failed in your job, but at least you admit it and will hustle harder next time. |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BBallCoach
[B]Tex Blue, I give you credit you admit you kicked it. Now realize all of those kids you let down, because you failed in your job, but at least you admit it and will hustle harder next time. BBallCoach, Kinda reminds me about all the times when a game could have ended on a routine pop fly or routine grounder to the infield where the player chokes and now the game becomes tied and we go into extra innings. Wouldn't you agree, that if the coach had been doing his/her job during practices, the team would not have failed. Maybe the teaching basics of catching balls and making plays would be in order. Michael |
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If this still isn't good enough for ya, I got a old, worn out blue shirt with some stains on it ya can wear and come out and try to teach me something better. The quality of the shirt apparently matches your quality of knowledge on mechanics of umpiring. Or, ya can just stay on the board throwing out slop. Your choice. Try reading some of the posts on this subject, maybe even let a little of it sink into that thick coach's head of your's and learn. Or, just keep on spoutin' off, giving everybody a laugh at your expense. You been trollin for about a week on this. You finally got a bite. http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/frust.gif Enjoy it. That's 'nough on this subject. [Edited by TexBlue on Apr 29th, 2004 at 11:04 PM] |
I thought about deleting BBallCoach's post, but thought the better of it because it so perfectly shows what we as officials deal with every single game.
BBallCoach -- you say that TexBlue let the kids down, he was unprofessional, and you don't know how he sleeps at night -- because he missed a single play? And he admits it?!? No one is perfect -- not officials, not coaches. I have seen many games lost at the end because of bad coaching. Whether it is not calling a timeout at a critical time, fouling too late, or simply drawing up a play that totally flops -- there are far too many examples to list where coaches have caused the loss of a game. Should those coaches also not sleep at night because of what they have taken away from the kids?!? Coaches always say that all they want is consistency. I'll give you consistency if you'll get rid of the hypocrisy. |
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Simply put, you're an idiot. |
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