Fed 6-1-4b

[Roger Greene]

6-1-4b "the pitcher does not use a rocker action in which, after having the ball in both hands in the pitching position, she removes one hand from the ball, takes a backward and a forward swing and returns the ball to both hands in front of the body;"

I haven't seen this pitcher, but was asked by one of the members of our assiciation if it was legal. The pitch is described as follows:

RH F1 assums the pitching position. The ball is held in both hands at her right hip. F1 rocks back, separates hands and drops her RH back and to the rear. She then starts her windmill, but as the throwing arm comes forward she touches the ball in her throwing hand to her glove in front of her body. As the pitch is described there is no interuption to the windmill, just a second touch of the hands together.

My opinion was that the second touch made the pitch illegal. A respected umpire from another association I described the pitch to felt to call this illegal was "looking for boogers". (Of course he has jumped the fence and is coaching a varsity high school softball team this year, so his opinion must now be suspect! [big grin]}

I thought I'd pole the experts here, and then forward your opinions to our bullentin board.


Roger Greene

[whiskers_ump]

Roger,

RH F1 assums the pitching position. The ball is held in both hands at her right hip. F1 rocks back, separates hands and drops her RH back and to the rear.

I may be reading your post wrong, but starting with both
hands together, then stepping backward, is illegal.

As for the second touch, without having seen the pitcher,
I think it would be illegal under your referenced Rule.

[Little Jimmy]

I think it would depend on how much of a touch that second touch is. If it was a quick flick with the ball remaining visable I think I'd let that go. If the ball is getting hidden by going in to the pocket then you may have something. I would think the intent of the rule would be to keep the ball visable to the batter after the hands seperate.

[Roger Greene]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
I may be reading your post wrong, but starting with both
hands together, then stepping backward, is illegal.


[/B]

My post wasn't clear on the step, but the umpire observing the pitch assured me the step was legal (ie before or as the hands were brought together)

Disregarding any problem with the step, the question is about the second touch. That could happen with or without any rocker step.

Roger Greene

[Dakota]

Yes, it is illegal. A second touch (not hide) is not allowed. She is obviously getting something from this or she wouldn't do it.

My guess? - she is trying to distract the hitters.

IP it, IMO.

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by Dakota
Yes, it is illegal. A second touch (not hide) is not allowed. She is obviously getting something from this or she wouldn't do it.

My guess? - she is trying to distract the hitters.

IP it, IMO.

I agree, it has to be called. My only question is this: Has she been pitching for a while (a couple of years)? This could make a difference. Follow me on this one:

Wednesday I had a girl who would start legal (hands separated, ball in glove), start her motion by rocking THEN bringing hands together, pulling the ball out of the glove. This is fine, until she would immediately turn the back of the glove and touch the ball to it. This made a Double Touch, making it an ILLEGAL PITCH. Her motion from there was fine.

Since she was a varsity pitcher I called the first pitch illegal, and brought the coach out to describe what she was doing wrong (new team, only third year in existence). He explained to me (and I know him, and respect him, and don't think he's lying---even if he is a coach) that it's a timing mechanism for her delivery. He knows it's illegal, but she's only pitched this year (started learning in early March). Coach has daughter that was a pretty good pitcher in her time...she's throwing minor college ball now. His daughter had the same motion when she started pitching, then he took out the DT in the middle of the season, once her motion was consistent.

So what do I do? I called the other team head coach out to the circle, and she said it was fine, not to call any more illegal pitches on the girl. I agreed, and we finished the game.

Illegal Pitching team lost 11-0. They (the varsity) were beat by a JV team.

Could I have called IP every pitch? Yes. Would it have done any good? No, because she's the only pitcher the team has.

Back in the day when I coached (I was "one of them") I used to teach pitching in a progression:
1. sling-shot to get release down.
2. windmill--slow at first, to get the motion down (many
small steps in this one).
3. hop--yes, I taught a crow hop/leap as a timing mechanism for pushing off and releasing the ball. Ironically, I had a girl go well into the state tournament before she was finally called for hopping.
4. LEGAL--yes, legal was the last step. Once they mastered everything else, I took out the hop, put in a toe-down drag, and everything was good.

So, maybe the DT as described originally is a timing thing. Still illegal, but at least you have an explanation