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The League commissioner is a former baseball umpire. I will be surprised if this policy is really enforced.

Seems to me, the league commissioner is an idiot. Just a personal opinion.

Mike

I worked a 16B/18B regional a couple of years ago in Kentucky. On their diamonds, behind home plate, there is a Kentucky resolution that states, in effect, a limitation on the amount of "heckling" an umpire is to accept. It is a misdemeanor penalty and if I remember right, can be converted to a felony with repeated offenses.

The logic behind it is a player several years ago assaulted an umpire in the parking lot after a game. I don't recall the details, but I do remember a weapon was involved.

Re: Zero Tolerance
 

I wonder if the net effect of this will be to cause more problems.

I dont mind some heckling... maybe it's a part of the game? I feel like it is. If it gets out of hand and since I do 14U 12U 10U if the heckler is cussing.. then my tolerance quickly fades to Zero, but simple whining about a call.. every close call is going to bother 1/2 the people.

When I coached a combined 13-18 Dixie team last season, I gave all the parents a letter stating a number of things we expected which included this about officials:

"Remember that the umpires are part of the game. Don't overreact to their calls. They represent authority on the field. Teach your daughters to respect authority and to play by the rules. We will not tolerate arguing with officials from players or spectators."

I never had any real problems from the parents. I think some verbal disagreement with an occasional call is part of the game and isn't a problem. Foul language or a long tirade is never acceptable.

Re: Re: Zero Tolerance
 

I have never understood how people can justify heckling, ridiculing, pestering (whatever you want to call it), a person who is trying their best to work at the advocation of their choice as "part of the game." Plain and simply put, it is poor sportsmanship. I felt this way as a player and a coach, long before I became an umpire.

I am not saying that you should reduce yourself to the level of the "heckler/bad sport" by intentionally seeking him out, or even giving creedence to his heckle, but by all means, don't excuse it as "part of the game."

hecklers
 

"Ahhh ump, that was a strike.. jeez" .. from the someone in the crowd..

So eject them? Warn them?

I think that is a little sensitive. I think that would also make you small in the eyes of the crowd and coaches.

disputing a close call or something from the crowd.. it just doesnt bother me.... sorrry. What bothers me is if it starts to affect the enjoyment of the game either on the part of the players or the other spectators by being overtly rude or using inappropriate expletives.

One thing you blues never seem to grasp is that the spectators have better angles on all the plays and just make better calls.
J/K.
As a spectator I usually do let the umpires know I have a good angle and am available to provide assistance anytime they need it. This always gets a chuckle.

hail to the chief
 

E9's are always right. It's Natures law.

Re: hecklers
 

Did you read what I said? I said "don't seek them out or give creedence to the heckler." That doesn't mean warn or eject them. That means exactly what it says. In other words ignore it! What I am saying is don't excuse these folks and their behavior as just having a good time, especially when it is at the expense of someone else.

This league was established about 4 years ago. Doug mentioned the zero tolerance stance their first year but it was never enforced. A softball coach, that was banned by another league in the area, headed up and managed in their Belles division (13-15 yo). I knew his behavior would test their local rule very early in the season. He was ejected in the second game of the year but never suffered any penalties. I was told that the league felt he was being targeted by the umpires because of his reputation. He never coached again after that year due to more incidents throughout the season. I've umpired many games for this league and the fans are fairly well behaved, but it's in the most affluent area of our city. Thus some parents, coaches, and children believe that they are above the rules and their behavior usually reflects this belief.

[Edited by alabamabluezebra on Apr 2nd, 2004 at 02:55 PM]

well then we are on the same page..
 

It is exactly what I do.. I ignore them.

We simply have a difference of opinion; I believe it is part of the game within reason... you dont.. yet we handle it the same way. Maybe i'm not as sensitive as others. I don't feel it's at my expense either.. because it doesnt bother me.

They are advocating for their team and it's fair and proper IMO and I disagree with you. When I ignore it.. it is because I ignore it.. its a non issue until they start causing trouble that must be handled for the sake of the minor players, crowd, and the image of the game and league .. it's not about me or my feewings.

<B>One thing you blues never seem to grasp is that the spectators have better angles on all the plays and just make better calls.
J/K.
As a spectator I usually do let the umpires know I have a good angle and am available to provide assistance anytime they need it. This always gets a chuckle.</B>

I've always wanted to create an eyeglass frame out of chain-link fence material because everyone behind chain-link fences seem to see every play better! ;)

"Zero tolerance" might sound good to some people, but it has been interpreted in truly insane ways around the country. A teacher at an elementary school here in New Jersey tells me that her school's "zero tolerance" policy concerning violence covers second-graders who point fingers and yell, "Bang!" with their friends on the playground. These kids are then assigned to mandatory "violence prevention" programs, and for several days have to take special buses to another location for indoctrination.

If you think this is some kind of aberration, look again. We've also all heard about the seventh-grader who gives her friend an aspirin and is banished to the program for drug dealers.

In sports, "zero tolerance" should apply to behavior that's out of line, but somebody with brains has to make a judgment as to what falls under that umbrella. Frankly, if nobody could gripe, umpiring wouldn't be as much fun.

The "somebody with brains" caveat obviously doesn't work. Most of those involving schools are considered people "with brains".

What you need is someone with some common sense using some intelligence to make level-headed decisions AND knows the difference between what is one individual's right and where that ends as opposed to the rights of others.

<b>The "somebody with brains" caveat obviously doesn't work.</b>

True. Common sense and brains are not synonymous. We need more of the former.

While in college, a buddy of mine loved to show up at my games and leather lung me the whole game (hoops). Once, he brought a couple of friends, and they started in on me during warm-ups. They were sitting around some partisons who, of course, egged them on when I made calls against their team, but these folks couldn't quite figure out why these guys were arguing ALL calls -- not just the ones that went against them.

Finally, one guy sitting there tapped my friend on the shoulder and said, "who exactly are you rooting for?" My friend responded, "nobody. That's my best friend out there officiating." To which the fan replied, "boy, I'm sure he feels the same way about you."

We laughed hard about that at dinner that night. They bought.

Researching Kentucky's law
 

Just today (4/4) saw FUBLUE's summation of Kentucky law. I'm researching to be sure, but I don't think heckling falls under the Kentucky statute. Our legislature is great at overlooking $900 million budget deficits while they wrangle with small potatoes, so a few years ago they turned their brilliant minds to the pressing social problem of assaults on officials. (Not that assault can't be a serious problem for we blues, but it doesn't show up on the grand scale of Medicaid or taxes or everything legislators should be doing.)

Anyway, I'll research and report back, but I BELIEVE the Kentucky law says that an ASSAULT on an official is a misdemeanor, and if more than five participate the offense is a felony. I don't think the law is restrictive enough to cover heckling (which of course can constitute assault). I haven't heard of any arrests or prosecutions under that statute. I observed at the time that, in effect, the legislature had conferred "human being" status on sports officials, since assault and battery is already a crime when perpetrated on others. But hey, I'm grateful for any shield I can reach for, though it's doubtful a legal citation would put off five drunken out-of-state tournament yahoos who want to open up five cans of whup@ss on me. More later ... -- Ky Blue

When I played, there was a torrent of heckling throughout the game. (It was rough, but everyone seemed to know the limits.) We figured that was just tradition, and if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I never saw an attack on or even a threat to an official, though. Fans used to try to outdo each other with clever insults to the umpire, usually involving seeing-eye dogs, getaway cars, missing a good game, using his one good eye, and so on.

In later years, I saw many more players take the heckling personally, with fist fights over things that my generation would have ignored. I've seen a LL umpire walk away from the plate and down the RF line to lecture the fans and warn that any more comments would terminate the game. (In that case, the complaints had actually been brief and quite subdued. And the call they moaned about was indeed horrible.) Now at many parks detailed signs are posted prohibiting use of tobacco or liquor, use of profanity, arguing with officials, etc., with the relevant statute cited.

In the youth leagues here in NJ, I've seen coaches tossed and fans ejected for very minor things ("Call 'em both ways, Blue!) and watched the police arrive to remove a single loudmouth. But I have also seen behavior worse than any I ever saw in the "old days" (drunken father cursing out the ten-year-old who's playing right field instead of his more-deserving son). That guy they <i>didn't</i> throw out.