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As we non-typists need acronyms for everything, "occupation status of 1st" is hereby "OS1". ![]()
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it. |
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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The "foul tip" means that the ball remains live and is treated as a strike untouched by the bat. The ball was not caught in flight from the pitcher, therefore it is eligible to be considered a U3K.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball. |
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This is the delema.... If the ball strikes the ground and the batter swings and misses, the strike is considered "uncaught" HOWEVER, if the ball strikes the ground and the batter swings and hits a fly ball, the ball can be "caught" for the out. The definition of a foul tip(NFHS)states: "... a batted ball that goes directly from the bat to the catcher's mitt..... and is legally caught by the catcher. It is a strike." So one side of the discussion says that when the ball becomes batted, it then can be caught. The other side (yours I think) says that because the ball stuck the ground before the batter swung, it cannot be a caught third strike.. That, too makes some sense. But, if you are going to say that it is strike 3 UNcaught, then by rule you have to call it a foul ball!! Don't you? Besides that, right or wrong, it LOOKS like a caught foul-tip. From a game management point of view, I feel more confident selling that call (that by hitting the ball, he change it's status (to a batted ball, which can be caught for a Foul Tip) Also,by implication, you are saying that if the ball strikes the ground and then the batter hits it in the air and it "is securely held by F7 (before touching the ground, etc), it is still NOT a catch because the ball hit the ground before the batter hit the ball.... Try to sell THAT!! LOL - I KNOW you aren't saying that, but it seems that that would follow. I'm not sure how to get a definitive ruling, but for now, that's my thinking, the way I would call it and I'm sticking with it ---- for now. I' (Written too early in the morning after a night of debauchery) [Edited by Hugo Tafurst2 on Apr 3rd, 2004 at 09:07 AM] |
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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Well, obviously you can argue this either way. But to me, the ball hitting the bat supersedes the previous bounce and changes the status to pure foul tip. In other words, once the bat hits the ball, the bounce no longer applies.
Of course, ASA might see it differently, and I'm surprised they have never ruled on this. I'm even more surprised that baseball apparently hasn't either. I can't find any mention in J/R, BRD, or PBUC.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide! |
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I think we are agreeing here also. What I mean by "I can sell the call better" is that I can present the way I read the rule, the foul tip (caught) IS the correct ruling. I admit that a good argument can be made for saying it is an uncaught 3K, however, not good enough to change my reading of it. I believe that, I can "sell that". Now if I am presented with a hard ruling or casebook play, I certainly would have no problem with that. |
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I don't need to be reminded that softball is not baseball, but now I learn that in baseball the pitch in question is considered "caught" for the purposes of the "uncaught third strike" rule.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide! |
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Well, I'm gonna reverse on this one.
I'll take ASA's 7.4.D as direction unless somewhere along the way I'm told otherwise.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball. |
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What about NFHS? |
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball. |
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I have much more opportunities to work NSA, ISA & of course NFHS. As for Hugo the 1st.... I must have signed up a while ago using Hugo Tafurst. Recently, when I rediscovered this board, I tried to register as "Hugo Tafurst" but was told that name already existed, hence Hugo Tafurst2. (Simple!!) |
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