R1 on 3B, R2 on 1B, less than 2 outs. R2 steals on the pitch, F2 fire bullet to F4 at 2B. R2 stops, and starts back to 1B, obviously trying to get F4 to chase her and get R1 home from 3B.

F4 throws to F1 in circle; R2 looks at pitcher, and starts slowly back to 1B. One tiny step at a time! You are BU and you have responsibility for R2. What might you do?

1. Allow R1 to continue her merry way back to 1B, ready to call her out if she hesitates a fraction of a second?

2. Call time and order runner(s) back to their bases.

3. Call time and eject R2 for USC?

Or might you select #2, plus give a bench warning about delay of game, USC, etc. and then select #3 the next time it happens in the game?

WMB

WMB,

I choose what is behind door #1. As long as the runner is moving, you have to wait. Nothing in the rule about the speed of the runner.[img]

Ditto, wait for the play to "play itself out" Relax..& enjoy the moment.

I agree with Bob... as long as she is moving, she is OK. However, remember that whether or not she is moving is an umpire judgment! ;)

Include me in this group. No problem as long as there is some continuous motion.

I'd let her return slowly, too. And I'd apply the same criterion to her as to any other returning runner: only an obvious complete stop makes me call her out. I would not be looking to stretch my interpretation of a stop simply to make an out call because I didn't like what she was doing.

Frankly, I'm surprised we don't see more of this kind of thing. I suspect that if many coaches decide to employ such a strategy, ASA will come up with a ruling to deal with it.

This brings up a similar play: the BR who, with runners on let's say 2B and 3B, gets a base on balls and proceeds very slowly to 1B, allowing the two runners ample time to dance around and play games.

Technically, however, a BR or runner could maintain a continuous motion yet proceed so slowly that it would take 10 minutes to get to the next base. Obviously, we can't let that happen. Would that be USC? Or would it be a form of abandonment of effort, since normal effort requires normal, not abnormal, time?

Grey Mule, Thats dangerous territory. For us to use our judgement and say that a players motion was "TOO" slow or "unusually" slow thus we can enforce a rule we like to deter play we don't like. I love the idea but "absolute power corrupts absolutely". I don't want to be an ump exercizing too much of that.

I agree, Chuck Chopper. But obviously there are ways that players can stay within the technical rules and yet make a mockery of the game, and we can't let that happen. In baseball, a pitcher can make endless "pickoff" attempts. At what point do we put a stop to it, and how? We've all seen teams use various tactics to stall in hopes of rain as well. Players can fake injuries, too.

In baseball, I've seen runners overrun 1B by 75 feet and then return ever so slowly, stopping to pull up socks, etc. Do we call an out for failing to return immediately? I once saw an ump do just that.

In games that are run by a clock, there are far fewer opportunities to engage in the sort of thing we've been discussing. As for runners returning inch by inch, at some point we have to assert ourselves and manage the game. Exactly how in that situation, I don't know for sure. I guess it's something to deal with on a case-by-case basis.

when r2 initiates steal play continues regardless of the throw to f1 r2 remains in jeapordy til play ends

Yes, but that's not the question JJC.

I think if the game was timed, I'd show a lot less leniency than what I'm about to say ... but if it's not timed, you simply have to let them play. Eventually - the stupidity will either A) WORK (pitcher loses patience and fires to first), B) BACKFIRE (pitcher fires to first and nails runner), or C) END (coach with stupid tactics finally realizes he's adding nothing to his team's chances of winning).

In a timed game, after the first such incident (either the slow returning runner or the horribly slow base on balls), I might talk to the "offending" coach urging him not to make me call USC for delaying the game unnecessarily (and trying my best to phrase it well!)

Speaking ASA

This probably doesn't happen because the young ladies may not totally understand a slow, continuous motion without some hesitation which the umpire could consider a stop.

Quote:

This brings up a similar play: the BR who, with runners on let's say 2B and 3B, gets a base on balls and proceeds very slowly to 1B, allowing the two runners ample time to dance around and play games.

You know, that plate looks a bit dirty, think I'll clean it. "Time"

Quote:

Technically, however, a BR or runner could maintain a continuous motion yet proceed so slowly that it would take 10 minutes to get to the next base. Obviously, we can't let that happen. Would that be USC? Or would it be a form of abandonment of effort, since normal effort requires normal, not abnormal, time?

There is no "normal effort" requirement in moving to or from a base. Nor is there any rule for abandonment of a base, effort or anything else. Much ado about nothing. Unless the player is actually attempting a steal and moving toward the next base, and if the pitcher is obviously not interested in making a play, take another look at that plate and see how the catcher must have covered it up with dirt ;)

There comes a point when extreme slow motion is seen by any normal person as stopped.

While I won't be looking for a micro-stop in order to get a "gotcha" because they runner is annoying, neither will I be using a laser range finder to measure small increments of movement. The movement must be continuous and in one direction.

If she appears stopped, she's stopped in my judgment.

I agree with everyone, the play continues and you gotta let it go, even in a timed game. Buuuut, like someone said, if it's a very deliberate attempt to stall, call time and explain to the coach what the consequences are if this continues. I was watching a game about 4 years ago, 18-U Gold and the runner rounded 1st with the ball in the circle and a runner on 3rd. The girl rounding 1st kinda leapt into the air, towards 2nd, landed, bent her knees and leapt again towards 2nd. She never stopped the motion and kept progressing towards 2nd. The pitcher was pointing towards the runner and asking the BU if she wasn't out. He never replied, since there was a play going on. Once she got all the way to 2nd, he looked at the pitcher and said No. I agreed with exactly the way he handled it and was glad I wasn't on the field, since it caused quite a discussion with the coaches and the umpire for awhile. Gotta let em play.

Rick

<b>You know, that plate looks a bit dirty, think I'll clean it. "Time"</b>

Before the BR gets to 1B on a base on balls?

greymule,

I was wondering the same. Because as long as there is a
play in progress, we as umpires, should never call time.