The Infield Fly Rule with an NFHS twist

BigUmpJohn · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 01:23am

I do know the infield fly rule. But, when going over the NFHS rule book and case book for the year, I saw something that doesn't make sense to me.

NFHS Rule 2.30:

Infield fly rule is, WHEN DECLARED BY THE UMPIRE, a fair fly (not including a line drive or an attempted bunt) that can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort when runners are on first and second or all three bases are occupied and before there are two outs in the inning...

Now, NFHS Rule 7.4.1h:

A batter shall be called out when she hits an infield fly when the infield-fly rule is in effect, EVEN IF IT IS NOT CALLED.

Wha? I'm assuming they mean that the ball isn't caught. Are we supposed to call a dead ball and then call the batter out?

Case play 2.30SitB:

R1 and R2 are on second and first bases, respectively, with no outs. B3 hits a high pop foul between home and first base with F3 losing sight of the ball because of the sun. The ball lands on foul ground without being touched and rolls into fair territory halfway between home and first base. F1 picks up the ball and throws to F4 covering first, who touches R2 with the ball while the latter is off base. RULING: Fair ball. (Ok, no problem with that.) Even though the infield fly was not called, it is still in effect. B3, therefore, is out. R2 is also out.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but isn't part of the IF rule a judgment call? So, how can we call someone out if we didn't call for the IF rule? Help please?

Steve M · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 04:56am

John,
That is in there in case it is realized by the umpire(s) that they should have called IF and didn't. NFHS allows this correction to be made. Same thing for ASA - while not really clear on this in the rule book or POE, the case book does address this with Play 8.2-35. On the other hand, NCAA is just as specific in not allowing this correction.

Steve M

Dakota · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 09:21am

Steve's right. It is poorly worded (as if some all-seeing, all-knowing, infinite mind will zap the BR), but what it really means is that if the umpire realizes that he should have called IF, he can make the correction anyway and rule the BR out.

It doesn't remove the judgement call. It just allows for a late judgement.

greymule · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 11:58am

If the ball dropped in foul territory and the sun was in F3's eyes, it might be that no infielder was able to catch it with ordinary effort. Even though that ball rolled fair, it might not be an infield fly but would instead be a fair, live ball. I think you HTBT (in this hypothetical play!). So make a video that we can assess, BigUmpJohn.

The IF can also be called off. A few years ago, my partner and I both called IFR on a towering, Miken-juiced pop that F6 called and was actually under, and the ball ended up blowing all the way to the warning track, where it fell untouched. We took the IF off after the ball fell.

IRISHMAFIA · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 02:27pm

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule

The IF can also be called off. A few years ago, my partner and I both called IFR on a towering, Miken-juiced pop that F6 called and was actually under, and the ball ended up blowing all the way to the warning track, where it fell untouched. We took the IF off after the ball fell.

You would lose that protest.

BigUmpJohn · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 02:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve M
John,
That is in there in case it is realized by the umpire(s) that they should have called IF and didn't. NFHS allows this correction to be made. Same thing for ASA - while not really clear on this in the rule book or POE, the case book does address this with Play 8.2-35. On the other hand, NCAA is just as specific in not allowing this correction.

Steve M

Okay. That's what I thought. We call it after the fact as an "Oops, my fault... should've called it" type of call. I get it. What about the case play? If F3 couldn't catch the ball because of the sun, then with ordinary effort, could anyone catch the ball? The ball lands foul, rolls fair, and THEN we call the IF? Seems a little odd to me. But what do I know?

mdntranger · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 02:56pm

I don't think the sun has any effect on the play. If that were the case, we'd get a lot of complaints about the sun being in my eyes and therefore.... The IF is there to protect the offense from a cheap double-play. If the ball is landing that close to the foul line, the call while it's in the air should be IF...if fair.

greymule · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 05:29pm

If the ball is landing that close to the foul line, the call while it's in the air should be IF...if fair.

I still think it's a HTBT. If F3 clearly isn't picking up the ball and no one else is going for it, I could see holding back on calling IF. Depends on several factors, I believe, like the height of the pop, the level of play, and your assessment of F3's ability to catch it.

greymule · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 08:56pm

ASA case play 1.71 is virtually identical to BigUmpJohn's original NFHS case play.

I'm trying to find something in the rule book or case book about calling the IFR off. Obviously, if IFR is called and the balls falls untouched in the infield and then rolls foul, the IFR is no longer in effect. But what if the ball my partner and I called IFR on had blown over the fence? It almost did.

Anybody have a citation?

Steve M · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 09:10pm

I can't remember ever hearing about an IF being "called off". I can't recall ever reading about it in any sanctioning body. I do remember a number of times it was called and shouldn't have been, the call stuck and was lived with. I do remember reminding some younger umpires that "that's why you don't call IF too soon." and saying essentially the same thing (maybe a little more forcefully and in a language I was sure they'd understand) to some umps who thought they knew it all.

If you call IF & the ball is then blown over the fence, you're gonna have to eat a whole lot of stuff from the offensive coach. Gonna test your management skills to keep that coach in that game, cuz a wrong call forced him to react.

Steve M

greymule · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 10:32pm

Even if I had called IFR, if the ball had gone over the fence, as it almost did with the freak wind currents we had that day, I'd have ruled it a HR. The rule that says a ball going over the fence in flight is a HR would outweigh the rule that says the batter is out when the ump calls IFR (to me, anyway).

And of course I'd have taken heat.

The ASA book says to call IFR at the ball's highest point. At that point (which in this case was way the heck up there), F6 was about 30 feet onto the outfield grass, facing the infield and yelling, "I got it." Then he just kept going farther and farther back.

IRISHMAFIA · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 11:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule
Even if I had called IFR, if the ball had gone over the fence, as it almost did with the freak wind currents we had that day, I'd have ruled it a HR. The rule that says a ball going over the fence in flight is a HR would outweigh the rule that says the batter is out when the ump calls IFR (to me, anyway).

And of course I'd have taken heat.

The ASA book says to call IFR at the ball's highest point. At that point (which in this case was way the heck up there), F6 was about 30 feet onto the outfield grass, facing the infield and yelling, "I got it." Then he just kept going farther and farther back.

I believe a fair, untouched ball which leaves the field of play could be corrected as the defense possibly relaxing or making another play based on the umpire's call would be non-existent. However, in any other circumstance, I think you have to eat the "judgment" call. Freaky things happen and you cannot cover every little thing with a specific caveat.

Elaine "Lady Blue" · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 11, 2003, 02:56pm

Mike said "Freaky"

hahahaha!

Super Freaky!

Peace, Love, and Happy Holidays!

[Edited by Elaine "Lady Blue" on Dec 11th, 2003 at 02:00 PM]

CecilOne · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 12, 2003, 07:21pm

Next Thanksgiving, I will add to my list that an IF call can't be reversed, but also that of it goes over the fair fence, it alters the spirit of the rule and can be ignored.

CecilOne · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 12, 2003, 07:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BigUmpJohn
... snip ... NFHS Rule 2.30:
Infield fly rule is, WHEN DECLARED BY THE UMPIRE, a fair fly (not including a line drive or an attempted bunt) that can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort when runners are on first and second or all three bases are occupied and before there are two outs in the inning...

Now, NFHS Rule 7.4.1h:
A batter shall be called out when she hits an infield fly when the infield-fly rule is in effect, EVEN IF IT IS NOT CALLED.

Wha? I'm assuming they mean that the ball isn't caught. Are we supposed to call a dead ball and then call the batter out?

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but isn't part of the IF rule a judgment call? So, how can we call someone out if we didn't call for the IF rule? Help please? [/B]

You might remember that I frequently note the irony of poor quality editing by an educational organization.

The quote above of " WHEN DECLARED BY THE UMPIRE" really means "IN THE CASES WHEN IT IS DECLARED BY THE UMPIRE", i.e., not by the players, coaches, fans or Tim McCarver.

As said earlier, NFHS Rule 7.4.1h and the ASA case are there to say that the declaration by the umpire can be "late", i.e., even after the "play" ends. If the batter is out for IF, no need to call dead ball to call the out (no matter how late), but a good idea to call time to prevent other playing activity while you are announcing (and argueing) it. As rule additions, the wording was not synchronized and so we have these confusions.

The only judgement is the ordinariness of the effort needed.