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-   -   Knee out of box (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/104931-knee-out-box.html)

shipwreck Mon Jan 20, 2020 06:23pm

Knee out of box
 
NCAA rules. If a batter makes contact with the ball while their knee is outside the batter's box, on the ground, is the batter out? The rule says a foot, but I wasn't exactly sure. Rule reference please.

Dave

CecilOne Mon Jan 20, 2020 06:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shipwreck (Post 1036905)
NCAA rules. If a batter makes contact with the ball while their knee is outside the batter's box, on the ground, is the batter out? The rule says a foot, but I wasn't exactly sure. Rule reference please.

Dave

Makes contact with the ball on the ground or the knee is on the ground?

shipwreck Mon Jan 20, 2020 07:21pm

Knee is on the ground outside of batter's box. Dave

AtlUmpSteve Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:10pm

Any body part out of the box on the ground at the moment of contact is an illegally batted ball. Look at Case Book approved rulings, promise you it is there.

teebob21 Tue Jan 21, 2020 05:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 1036915)
Any body part out of the box on the ground at the moment of contact is an illegally batted ball. Look at Case Book approved rulings, promise you it is there.

A bit of a tangent here - Steve, any idea why we have to take the 2020 test under the 2020-21 Rules Book with the 2019 Case Book? (other than the Case Book doesn't come out until February)

Or is there an edition of the casebook other than the one I could find?

AtlUmpSteve Tue Jan 21, 2020 09:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1036942)
A bit of a tangent here - Steve, any idea why we have to take the 2020 test under the 2020-21 Rules Book with the 2019 Case Book? (other than the Case Book doesn't come out until February)

Or is there an edition of the casebook other than the one I could find?

Per Vickie, she is still editing the casebook; not only to make the adjustments to the new rules, but to drop back and fix other noted errata. So we have to use what is the most current available, and add the newer AR's available on the Central Hub. Just as we must in all other situations.

Seriously, as late as during the middle of the Atlanta Clinic on 1/11/20, there were new tweaks to the "Taking the Signal", which she noted on a 1/15 published Interpretation. Based on several pointed questions, she had a teleconference with the Rules Committee with a decision before we left!!
Literally no way to have the updated Casebook available, she didn't want to release multiple versions with partial corrections; and the SUP was determined the test needed to be completed before the start of the season!!

Crabby_Bob Wed Jan 22, 2020 01:38am

You don't need the case book for this. Look carefully at 11.2.5, 11.15.1, 11.24.4 11.21.4, and 11.24.5 11.21.5.

AtlUmpSteve Wed Jan 22, 2020 04:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob (Post 1036954)
You don't need the case book for this. Look carefully at 11.2.5, 11.15.1, 11.24.4, and 11.24.5.

I believe you mean 11.21.4 and 11.21.5.

If that isn't enough, I can promise you this exact play (took a knee outside the box while bunting) was mentioned at the Atlanta Clinic.

Crabby_Bob Wed Jan 22, 2020 06:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 1036975)
I believe you mean 11.21.4 and 11.21.5.

If that isn't enough, I can promise you this exact play (took a knee outside the box while bunting) was mentioned at the Atlanta Clinic.

I do mean that. Thank you.

EsqUmp Sat Jan 25, 2020 07:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1036942)
A bit of a tangent here - Steve, any idea why we have to take the 2020 test under the 2020-21 Rules Book with the 2019 Case Book? (other than the Case Book doesn't come out until February)

Or is there an edition of the casebook other than the one I could find?

Any reason they took two weeks to mail the books/manuals then cut two weeks off the end date?

AtlUmpSteve Mon Jan 27, 2020 05:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 1037098)
Any reason they took two weeks to mail the books/manuals then cut two weeks off the end date?

Two different "they"s involved.

NCAA SUP set the test deadline.
ArbiterSports, by contract to someone OTHER than the SUP, mailed the books. Yes, they were (reportedly) aware of the test deadline, but apparently underperformed.

Manny A Tue Jan 28, 2020 04:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob (Post 1036954)
You don't need the case book for this. Look carefully at 11.2.5, 11.15.1, 11.24.4 11.21.4, and 11.24.5 11.21.5.

I'm on travel right now so I can't check. But for the life of me, I don't recall seeing the language in these sections of the hard-copy 2020-2021 rule book I used when I took the test that you find in the downloadable version of the same book. I believe they all still referenced the word "foot" instead of "body" in the hard-copy book.

Is it possible that the NCAA printed the 2020-2021 book with the old language from the 2018-2019 book, and then fixed the language for the PDF version?

AtlUmpSteve Tue Jan 28, 2020 05:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 1037220)
I'm on travel right now so I can't check. But for the life of me, I don't recall seeing the language in these sections of the hard-copy 2020-2021 rule book I used when I took the test that you find in the downloadable version of the same book. I believe they all still referenced the word "foot" instead of "body" in the hard-copy book.

Is it possible that the NCAA printed the 2020-2021 book with the old language from the 2018-2019 book, and then fixed the language for the PDF version?

My 18-19 book say any part of the foot; 20-21, while not highlighted as a change says any part of the body.


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