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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 04, 2018, 02:33pm
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ineligible player

Does USA sanction have a penalty for a team that uses an ineligible (not illegal) player?

I worked a game last night where one team wanted to play the game under protest because they believed their opponents were using an ineligible player.

I told them that that was not under our purview, and would have to be addressed to the league's officers. Also, that this was the only protest that did not need to be made before the next pitch. I was actually notified as teams were changing up after 1.5 innings.

If USA doesn't have anything specific, which I haven't been able to find so far, I'd guess it would have to be under league rules and/or bylaws.

Thanx.
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Old Sat Aug 04, 2018, 04:52pm
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In local play, usually league rule.

In championship, I suspect it would be a forfeit processed by the UIC and above. More likely in the code rather than the rule book.


Note: Participation by DQ or ejected member is a forfeit.
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Old Sun Aug 05, 2018, 03:59pm
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Without going through the entire USA code:

Suspension. A team that is determined to be in violation of USA Softball’s
rules and requirements shall forfeit the game being played or the game last
played. An ineligible player shall be suspended from further play in the
tournament and in any subsequent tournament for which he/she may have
qualified by virtue of their play in the tournament in which they were
suspended. A team, team member, manager or team official may be subject
to further penalties


However, this is not an umpire issue. If a team is protesting a player's eligibility in a tournament, the TD should be notified immediately. It is their responsibility to take any necessary action. Otherwise, the umpire should have the team specifically identify the player in question; ask that player for identification (driver license or some other picture ID), note the player's information in the scorebook of the protesting team and for yourself. Inform the protesting team to inform the league coordinator (or whomever) as soon as possible. The umpire should inform his/her assigner, rules interpreter, uic or whomever is the authority for the association
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Last edited by IRISHMAFIA; Sun Aug 05, 2018 at 04:10pm.
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Old Sun Aug 05, 2018, 06:26pm
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Thanx, Irish,

This league is pretty flexible in who can play in the game. Umpires do not get line up cards and teams are allowed to bat up to 16 players in a game. There is a lot of in/out substitution defensively. If late arriving players want to play, they're added to the bottom of the lineup. Substitutions are on the honor system between the teams and are rarely intentionally subverted.

But when playoffs start, teams are concerned about the ringers that seem to show up just for the playoffs. Either they're claimed to not be on the roster or haven't attended enough games during the regular season to be eligible for playoffs. Clearly, that is not (and cannot be) umpires' purview.
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Old Sun Aug 05, 2018, 11:56pm
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Local league that I work does ID and Roster checks for every playoff game they are given a paper id bracelet to wear ( actually put on wrist by Park employee after verification) no bracelet no play. each level has its own color and they change for every night during playoffs.

If it a regular league night Irish hit the nail on the head.
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Old Mon Aug 06, 2018, 12:37pm
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Originally Posted by Insane Blue View Post
Local league that I work does ID and Roster checks for every playoff game they are given a paper id bracelet to wear ( actually put on wrist by Park employee after verification) no bracelet no play. each level has its own color and they change for every night during playoffs.
That must be a high stakes league. What's the expense of paying a park employee and the cost of the equipment and materials to make bracelets?

What happens to late arriving players? Does the park employee have to hang around some complex all night?
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Old Mon Aug 06, 2018, 03:48pm
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Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
That must be a high stakes league. What's the expense of paying a park employee and the cost of the equipment and materials to make bracelets?

What happens to late arriving players? Does the park employee have to hang around some complex all night?
The Parks have people on staff whenever there is a game or something going on. They are there with verified rosters and it does not cost them any extra to do this.

The Parks also provide all bats and balls to keep things on the up and up (no shaved or rolled bats).
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Old Wed Aug 08, 2018, 04:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
Thanx, Irish,

This league is pretty flexible in who can play in the game. Umpires do not get line up cards and teams are allowed to bat up to 16 players in a game. There is a lot of in/out substitution defensively. If late arriving players want to play, they're added to the bottom of the lineup. Substitutions are on the honor system between the teams and are rarely intentionally subverted.
LOL. How do you even determine eligibility after-the-fact if you do not receive a lineup card?
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Old Wed Aug 08, 2018, 09:20pm
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Originally Posted by EricH View Post
LOL. How do you even determine eligibility after-the-fact if you do not receive a lineup card?
Again, eligibility is not an umpire issue.
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Old Thu Aug 09, 2018, 07:29am
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Originally Posted by EricH View Post
LOL. How do you even determine eligibility after-the-fact if you do not receive a lineup card?
[Sigh...] I/we do not determine eligibility. The leagues maintain rosters of their players from the start of the season and/or if additions are allowed during the season. If additions are allowed, there may be a cutoff for playoff eligibility, or a player must have appeared in "X" amount of games to be playoff eligible.

A player's name on a lineup card does not mean s/he's eligible per the leagues rules/bylaws.

In fact, the five recreational leagues I work don't have lineup cards. When we get to USA invitational tournaments or state tournaments, lineup cards are required.
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Old Wed Aug 15, 2018, 01:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
[Sigh...] I/we do not determine eligibility. The leagues maintain rosters of their players from the start of the season and/or if additions are allowed during the season. If additions are allowed, there may be a cutoff for playoff eligibility, or a player must have appeared in "X" amount of games to be playoff eligible.
Sigh...

If you, the umpire, do not receive a lineup during the game, how does anyone determine eligibility after-the-fact? THAT was the question. You (the general "you") cannot prove who played and who did not.
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Old Wed Aug 15, 2018, 09:58pm
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Originally Posted by EricH View Post
Sigh...

If you, the umpire, do not receive a lineup during the game, how does anyone determine eligibility after-the-fact? THAT was the question. You (the general "you") cannot prove who played and who did not.
Again, not the umpire's job. I totally agree that the umpire should always receive a line up, but we don't make the league rules.

TinB is correct, being on a line up card does not make a player eligible
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Old Thu Aug 16, 2018, 12:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post
Sigh...

If you, the umpire, do not receive a lineup during the game, how does anyone determine eligibility after-the-fact? THAT was the question. You (the general "you") cannot prove who played and who did not.
That is why city leagues in our area supply a scorekeeper who track eligibility, in/outs, and takes care of injuries (and the paperwork). This makes it easier to just umpire the game ON the field.
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Old Thu Aug 16, 2018, 01:05pm
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
TinB is correct, being on a line up card does not make a player eligible
No. But it does tell you who played.
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Old Thu Aug 16, 2018, 01:57pm
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Originally Posted by EricH View Post
No. But it does tell you who played.
It might. It tells you whose name was written down on the card.

The teams know most players in their respective leagues, with or without a lineup card. So if the lineup card says that Eric is playing first base but the other team knows it's really Dick, they might protest. And they do have their scorebooks even if the umpires don't have lineup cards.
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