Batter hit by pitch while swinging
 

B1 is hit on the hands while swinging at pitched ball. Ball is dead on strikes 1 & 2. What happens on strike 3? I understand ball is dead here also, but is batter out?

Well - it was a strike wasn't it? What's the batter's status when s/he has three strikes?

Was he correct saying on strikes 1 and 2 that the ball is dead if striking the batter?

On strike 3, without being hit by the ball, the ball is live. His question is, if struck by the ball on strike 3, is the ball live or not?

Your rhetorical question offered no insight or answer to his question. I don't know the answer either.



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This is from ASA:

8.1.2. b.

Penalty 2. If the batter is hit anywhere on the body, including on the hands, while swinging at a pitch, and hits the ball fair or foul, the ball is dead and a strike called. If it is strike three, the batter is out.

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If the poster knows it was a dead ball strike on strike one and two, and thus that it's a strike, why is he asking if on strike three if the batter is out.

Learn to think things through. In doing so the poster discovers the answer through the challenge.

Teach a man to fish.

Not sure about your reference of 8.1.2.b. Doesn't seem to be an ASA rule designation.

Check out USA/ASA Rule 7.6.A

Rule 7, SECTION 6 – THE BATTER IS OUT
A. When the third strike is:
1. Swung at and the pitched ball touches any part of the batter’s person.
2. Not swung at, and the ball hits the batter while the ball is in the strike zone.
3. A pitched ball, in the umpire’s judgment, which was prevented from entering the strike zone by actions of the batter other than hitting the ball.

I would love to be able to apply logic to interpret baseball/softball rules, but it never seems to work. In this case, it did. I waiting to hear some crazy reason why it was a live ball on strike 3.

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I copied this from a poster on another forum when I ran a Google search. That poster said it was ASA. Should have done better research, thanks for the correction.

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I'm not at all opposed to this general approach but in this particular case I think your reasoning is subtly wrong. There is a rule to cover this situation and there needs to be. If not just following where you're pointing, you have a problem if first base is open or two are out because strike three was uncaught.

Uncaught yes, but also a dead ball.

Yes, which is why you need a special rule because the BR cannot advance but the catcher can't pick up the ball and tag her either.

No, you don't need a special rule. A dead ball is a dead ball. What can happen during a dead ball?

A runner can be called out on appeal for failing to touch second and her coach can be tossed for arguing about it. Neither is particularly relevant here. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. If there wasn't a rule making the batter on a dead ball strike 3, she wouldn't be out, she'd be entitled to advance with liability to be put out which would be awkward with the ball being dead.

You are right, irrelevant.

And she would be out. The strike comes first, the contact with the batter second. Always has been dating back to the 1930s

Yes, but one is not out for getting three strikes unless the third one is caught or first base is occupied. (Or the batter gets hit but that was my point is that there's a rule for that.)

Doesn't matter. It's dead because it hit the batter.

Yes, and the batter's out because there's a rule that says she is.

Actually, the rule only recognizes a strike. The batter is out if it is strike 3, nothing to do with the batter being hit by the ball.

I don't have my current book with me. I do have a pdf copy of the rules from 2005 so that's what I'll cite; I don't think any of this has changed.

Rule 7-6-A is the relevant reference there. It clearly states that the batter is out if hit by strike 3 in the strike zone or if hit by strike 3 while swinging at it.

This discussion is about what would happen if you deleted that rule. 7-6-M doesn't apply because the catcher didn't catch the ball. So how do you get the out?

It would be possible to rewrite the rules with a notation that a batter who got three strikes was out with an exception for U3K but that's not how they read.

It is the third strike that makes the batter out whether it hits him/her or not. The rule you are citing is a redundancy. But I stand corrected you are right it is in the book. Why I have no idea. Probably for the same dummies that believe the IF rule is written properly citing 1st & 2nd or 1st, 2nd & 3rd as qualifiers.

7-4-H & Effect

7-4-H and its effect (in 2005) say that the ball is dead when the batter is hit with a batted ball that this is a strike unless it would be the third strike.
Is it now a citation for the batter being out with three strikes? I know it's three strikes, you're out at the old ball game; but if it's not 7-4-H supposing I asked for a rule citation for that proposition.

Shouldn't that be hit with a pitched ball? Or maybe I've just lost my way in this long, drawn out string.

Talk about beating a dead ball. :(

Is it now a citation for the batter being out with three strikes? I know it's three strikes, you're out at the old ball game; but if it's not 7-4-H supposing I asked for a rule citation for that proposition.[/QUOTE]

7.4 A Strike on the Batter
H. For each pitched ball swung at and missed which touches any part of the batter

Just for the record you are quoting from the 2005 book which is not consistent with the recent year's books.

Irish cited rule 7.4.H. You (youngump) are quoting rule 7.4.H from 2005 which is not the same same as the current books. The rule youngump is citing [see above quote] is actually 7.4.J in the new book.

7.4.H, as Irish stated from the current book, is "for each pitched ball swung at and missed which touches any part of the batter" And this rule has no qualifiers about less than 2 strikes or anything like that. So if batter swings and is hit by the pitch, it is always a strike. And if the batter already had 2 strikes, it is now strike 3. And on strike 3 we all know the batter is OUT. The part about the dead ball, etc. is also clearly listed in the effect section so runners can't advance.

But I think the biggest confusion was that youngump was quoting from the outdated book. A lot has changed since 2005!

Yes, I noted I only had the wrong book available. We're moving and my current books are packed up. Thank you for clarifying Irish's reference. I'm pretty sure the remainder of what I've been saying hasn't changed.

Yes, we all know the batter is out because it's the rule. Specifically it's two rules. One that says the batter is out if the 3rd strike is legally caught or 1B is occupied w/ less than 2 outs. One that says the batter is out if the 3rd strike hits them. You either need both or you need to change the first one to say the batter is out when they get 3 strikes and then add an exception for U3K.