intentional "swing" and miss in SP
 

I had a blowout adult slowpitch league game recently and the count was 3-1 in favor of a batter on the team way ahead (the blowout status is probably irrelevant). The pitch was inside and low and hit the ground to the side of the plate, nearly between the batter's feet. The batter -- obviously wanting to hit -- intentionally "swung" and missed, which was expected as the bat was just below shoulder level during the "swing." I called it a ball. He stayed and complained that he swung. I repeated that it was a ball and it was not a swing, and I told him to go to 1B. The defense also wasn't happy with me. An unpopular call with all 20+ players on both teams.

I'm 99% sure that he started his purported "swing" before the ball hit the ground, so technically it wasn't dead before he "swung", but he waited until the ball had dropped well out of any possible hitting zone. My reasoning is that he was making a mockery of the game and had no intention to hit the ball, thus he did not swing.

How would everyone else have handled this?

He/she may swing to avoid a walk, because he/she would rather hit. A swing is a swing is a swing. In my opinion, you blew it. I can't see any rule that would justify your call.

Bob

Granted, the grammar is weak, but there is the rule which MAY justify Tap's call. It specifically states the batter must swing at the ball. To me, that means s/he must be attempting to hit the ball.

Try calling a strike when the batter lets the bat drop in front of them while the ball passes them and see what type of argument you lose there :)

From my not-to-good mememory of my days in ASA, was there not also a point of emphasis which discussed a swing versus a check swing. In that discussion it said basically that breaking the wrist, the bat head going across the plate or other similar actions could be used in determining whether a attempt was made at the ball or not, but the ultimate decision was based on the opinion of the umpire as to whether the batter offered at the ball or not.

However, my personal opinion is to call it a stike and move on. If the pitcher has the right to throw an intentional ball, the batter has the right to take an intentional strike. Not to mention: "stike" = one step closer to getting done, "walk" = dang this is a long night.

swing
 

In hindsight, next time I probably would call a strike next time and let it go, unless he swung only after the ball hit the ground. In this bush league, it probably was not worth the hassle of making the call. But I'm glad Mike game me at least some rule-based support for the call.

another thought
 

Could an analogy be made to a batter, not paying attention, taking a practice swing while in the box just after the pitch leaves the pitcher's hand? In both cases, there is no intent to swing at the ball, and in the practice swing situation I believe that would not be ruled a swing. Just thinking out load--too busy at the moment to go through the book. Will do so this weekend.

If we are going to be that specific about "swing at", it means that the bat must hit the ball or otherwise the batter did not swing at the ball but at some air molecule or mosquito or something. That means there can never be a swinging strike unless the ball is hit foul or foul tipped.

This same topic (can a swing not be a strike) also comes up in fast pitch. Granted, FP does not declare the ball dead when it hits the ground, but FP has the third strike rule. You will occasionally see quick-thinking batters "swing at" an obviously wild pitch for the third strike and attempt to run to 1st while the catcher is chasing down the ball.

The rule & the umpire's manual on dealing with checked swings does include the idea of the batter actually attempting to hit the ball. However, if the batter swings and the ball is anywhere near the plate at the time, I've got a strike.

I have seen the same thing in slow pitch games. Guys not wanting to walk but wanting to hit. I always ring up the strike. My philosophy for rec ball is that I want every opportunity to get outs and strikes lead to outs.

I do not have my rule book with me but I do not think it matters if the batter swings at a ball that has hit the ground prior to the attempt at the pitch. It matters if he makes contact with the ball that has hit the ground (slow pitch only)but if he swings and misses after it hits the ground, I ring up the strike (happens all the time in co-ed).

Do you ever swat a mosquito? Do you always hit it? Be assured, if you do not swat at the mosquito, you do not have the opportunity to hit the damn thing.

Thanks for proving my point.

Yes. Yes. Right. Sorry you missed mine. :)

Do you ever swat a mosquito? Do you always hit it? Be assured, if you do not swat at the mosquito, you do not have the opportunity to hit the damn thing.

Thanks for proving my point.

[/QUOTE]

Glen,
Here is a chance to post your mosquito URL. That should drive everone to distraction!!!!
Roger

You are right, I missed your ;)

Never seem to notice any top-postings.

Glen,
Here is a chance to post your mosquito URL. That should drive everone to distraction!!!!
Roger [/QUOTE]

Will try and locate him before Tom does.....Oooops
frog got him first....http://burns.thefinaldimension.org/o...mals/eatit.gif

glen

I was talking about http://www.mosquitoweb.nl/

http://www.spao.de/pict/smilies/crap.gif

Good one Roger. I had forgotten about that one. I
had even copied and pasted it....after I sent it to all.

glen

Once again an example of how "WE" can become our own worse enemy. If a player swings on purpose to get a strike..pleeease give it to him/her. I have had games nearing curfew or darkness that had not gone the necessary 5 innings to be official. The team winning by a ton got up & swung intentionally missing just to get the inning over with. Players are not required to try to hit the ball.

trying to hasten end of game
 

As I noted above, in hindsight I probably should handled the situation that I posed by just calling the strike, as the player simply wanted to hit instead of walk. There was no issue of rain, darkness, or time limit.

However, the situation you pose -- intentionally hastening the end of the game -- is actually not legal and eventually could be grounds for a forfeit (the same goes for stalling). Having said that, I probably would let it go in an isolated instance in a rec league both teams were ok with it (e.g. a terrible blowout where the losing team wants to be put out of its misery as soon as possible). But it would make a farce of the game to let, say, 5 or 6 players in a row intentionally strike out or otherwise make an out on purpose for strategic reasons. Certainly there are gray areas, and some games indeed deserve to end ASAP (and, as umpires, we certainly want them to be official games when they end), but as umpires we also need to set limits. I would not condone a team making many outs on purpose to beat the rain, nor would I condone the defense in that situation intentionally making misplays. I would warn both teams.

Tap, I have also had games where BOTH teams conduct was not in the best interest for the integrety of the game. This usually occurs in these "Beer leagues" we all get stuck umpiring sometimes. When it gets pretty bad I just ask everyone if they would like to stop the game, I can go home, & they can go to the bar ????. That usually puts an end to the goofing around & the game gets closer to normal again.

Yes, Chuck, I agree. I'm increasingly getting tired of calling these types of games, though most teams/players are fine. It's just a few bad apples that I see.

Rubbish! Please define beer leagues. I haven't seen a "beer league" for years. Besides, I've encountered the same antics in Church and Industrial SP as well as Youth FP at the league, state and regional level.

Also, as an umpire, you should be willing to work all levels of ball, not just what you believe to be legitimate. I've never been "STUCK" with a ball game I didn't want to work.

I'm aware of quite a few umpires who probably need to work a few "beer league" games just to get their head out of their ***. I have also found that many of these "prima donna" umpires who feel they are too good to work anything, but the best games are often the same who don't feel it is important to attend clinics and crack a rule book every now and then. IOW, they are usually not up to snuff to work the competition of which they believe they are deserving.

JMHO,

Definition of a beer league according to Webster is a league where drinking at the bar before the game happens. The cooler is brought to the bench. Totally trashed player somehow find there bat & glove & attempt to play what they remember was softball. They start arguing with their own teammates manager (if one shows up) and then they start arguing with the other team. Eventually I take off my blue shirt & put on my stripes because now I'm a refereee no longer umping a game..I'm working a 7 inning fight.
.
Your are correct that we all take an oath to umpire a softball game..not this garbage.
.
I am happy that you have never been stuck with a game you didn't want to work. Let me know next time your in Baltimore & I'll take you to leagues that cannot find sanctioned umpires for the above reasons

Okay, I've been there and done that except I'm not a referee. I just stand back, take numbers and eject everyone attached to any number I had to write down.

Quote:

Your are correct that we all take an oath to umpire a softball game..not this garbage. I am happy that you have never been stuck with a game you didn't want to work. Let me know next time your in Baltimore & I'll take you to leagues that cannot find sanctioned umpires for the above reasons

You are right, and therefore, should not make yourself available to work those games. For that matter, you should push your association to not contract with such a league. However, if you allow players to bring alcohol to the field, you are basically setting yourself up for trouble.

Eventually, some of the players wise up and find a legitimate league in which to play and the others will still get drunk and fight among themselves which is fine by me 'cause I'm not going to be there to deal with it.

The reason I never feel "stuck" with a game is because I consider all games to be equal, at least at the beginning ;)

Yes, I have to readjust some of my on field priorities as the lower the level, the more likely you are to encounter a goofy play to the wrong base or something similar to that. However, just because you have a "D" game today and a "B" game tomorrow shouldn't mean that you walk through the D and give the B game everything you have. Every team deserves the best game the umpire can offer regardless of the level of play.

<b>Definition of a beer league according to Webster is . . .</b>

Are you serious that a dictionary actually defines "beer league"?