verbalize a fly ball out?
 

During a recent tournament I compiled some inputs for a newer umpire that was working with us. The tournament was a USA sanctioned event.

After composing the tips, I looked up references in the USA Umpire Manual.

Now I have a question about the mechanic for the PU to verbalize the out on a fly ball to the outfield. I also checked my NFHS Umpire Manual to see what they had.

The NFHS covers it under Movement from the Plate in item 4.

“On fly balls to the outfield not near the foul line, move to obtain a good angle to the catch versus straight at the fielder catching the ball. If the ball is caught, give an out signal and a verbal ‘out’ call.”

The USA version is similar, on fly balls not near the foul line: B.1.d.2)

“If the ball is fair and not caught, no signal is needed. No verbal call is given. If the ball is caught, give an out signal.”

There are multiple passages within this section that are greyed out, indicating that these were updates this year.

I have always verbalized (and signaled) even the most can-of-cornish catches. If I have a plate partner who doesn’t verbalize, I’ve always asked that they do.

Is this a change for USA or was something inadvertently omitted?

Four or five years ago, I asked a plate partner why he wasn’t verbalizing fly ball outs. He said he worked “college ball” and the philosophy was no verbal call so as not to (further) embarrass a girl who made an out. He also gave a very weak little fist turn over near his belt. My BS antennae started twitching, but since I don’t work “college ball” I couldn’t refute the statement.

Anyhoos… Comments?

My (confusing) philosophy, based on what I have been taught at all levels:

1): Every call is the same: Verbalize and signal, except on pitches called balls (no signal).

2): Every call is different: Some need selling. Others do not. Some, like infield line drives, need no selling but deserve a strong vocal call because the speed of the game is dependent on your call.

Your BS detector is in fine working condition, as far as I can tell.

Yeah, that was one of the comments I noted for this guy. Every pitch out of the strike zone needed a location flourish. He looked like an orchestra conductor!

I smell a self-taught baseball guy.

Yeah, fair amount of bullshit there.

I actually prefer a verbal out on all such calls if for no other reason than keeping a routine. Doesn't have to be loud, just be something other than silence.

My question to these guys is:

When you call a strike, do you tell everybody where the pitch was?
STRIKE...on the corner!

I usually get a "why the hell would I do that" look, so I ask them why they feel the need to tell everybody when they call a ball....It just looks like they have to justify their call.

Tell him to just say "I looked all over the strike zone and could not find it."
;)

Agree with the bolded. :cool:

Where the play is does not matter, it is the "closeness" and the situation.
Even some base runner calls do not need a verbal.

As to infield line drives, the tough ones get a long & loud verbal to reward the fielder and show the batter they were robbed. :cool:

However, I don't get the speed of the game factor. :confused:

If I am trying to watch runners on 1 and 2, I appreciate a loud call for the tag up purposes

That verbal should not be your indicator of a runner leaving the base properly or not, especially since an out being record has no bearing on when a runner may leave the base to advance on a caught fly ball.

I give a strong vocal out for a caught infield line drive in order to be a better partner for my crew. It's not supposed to be an indicator of the timing of the catch. If the play is going away from his starting position, or he's straight-lined on the catch (which is fine because he doesn't have the catch/no-catch call here), or there may be concern about a trap, a loud vocal call allows him to know with certainty what the game situation is, even with non-optimal positioning. From there, he can move or read the throw to make a proper call on a snap-throw for the live-ball appeal. Without the vocal, that snap throw can be too quick for him to read the play, watch me signal, and then correctly rule on the secondary play.

For the same reasons, I will give a loud verbal "NO!" on a trapped ball followed by a safe signal. That might not be exactly by the book either, but I think runners and partners need to know as soon as possible.

Over the years I have found that just as many hear "out" as hear "no"

So you also give a verbal "NO!"? I guess I've been more fortunate in that regard. I don't really recall ever having a problem with that.

I do the same thing. NO for a not-out, YES for an out. Pulled foot? "NO!", followed by safe signal. High throw and the foot stayed on? "YES!" + point, plus out signal to reflect the closeness of the play.

During my formative years, ASA (now USA) had a big push towards single-syllable vocalizations. Example on a check swing: Mask off, point to partner, and "SWING?" I still haven't gotten that entirely out of my system.

I yell NO on a trap, too. I know the safe signal on a no-catch is not the USA/ASA mechanic, but dang is it useful in the codes that allow it. NO plus a safe signal is evident to everyone, no matter what level of hearing impairment.

I think he meant that yelling "NO" sounds like "OUT" to many.

There is no verbalization for no catch, missed base, fair ball, etc. in the mechanics.

Isn't that correct? :confused:

"Ask in a loud verbal voice "Did they go?"

I guess that works better when there are multiple batters. ;)

No, that lasted about a year or so and they returned to the previous mechanic.

And you were correct, I meant what is stated is not what the players/coaches claim to have heard. Same with "NO CATCH". Players claim to hear catch, which is true, they just don't hear the "NO".

I would suggest that if you are going to say anything, repeat it multiple times to reduce the chance of misunderstanding.

FWIW, my verbals on fly balls to the outfield are more for my partner's sake than that of the players. I'll either say, "Catch!" or "On the ground!" to let him/her know the ball's status. I don't like saying, "No Catch!" to avoid my partner missing the "No" in that.

USA and NFHS mechanics are almost identical as far as I can tell. If you're being evaluated by our HS Umpire's association and say "Catch!" on a caught fly ball, you will be marked down. The call is "Out!"

I've done at least 2 games during evaluations where my plate partner called outs by "Catch!" and they were both dinged. If I remember, I think they were both baseball officials as well as softball.

I do also use the "on the ground" verbal for my partners when I do the plate. I've had some people tell me that's not a proper mechanic. But I still do it and usually pre-game that when working with a new partner.

Okay...I'll play devil's advocate here.

Do you feel a need to verbalize all calls that are obvious to everyone in the ballpark?

A lazy fly ball to the outfield, like an obvious foul, doesn't require a verbal call, IMO. A simple routine out call, just like one used on a runner who is out by 15 feet at first base, is all that is needed. No need to be overly officious. Everyone knows it is an out, just a simple acknowledgement is all that is needed. This way, on closer calls, the verbal has more power. More weight.

I verbalize everything. A no doubter at first or a can of corn? "Out." at normal speaking voice + signal. The only person that probably hears me is the F3 on a play at 1B, or the catcher on a fly ball.

Softball vs Baseball Umpire
 

Some of the best baseball umpires are good softball umpires.

If I'm doing a HS game in NH, absolutely. I always verbalize regardless, even though USA doesn't apparently require it. Not big, loud sell outs, but if my partner is following a runner, I want him/her to hear me.

After an evaluation game one year, the evaluator claimed that I didn't verbalize an out. I was on the bases that game and I responded that I verbalize every out. He further claimed that he didn't see my mouth move. So I lost points for not verbalizing and for having the gall to challenge him on it. Vindictive SOB.

Yep. :D

What leads you to say that?

I thought this was in response to the situation of an obvious catch called by a chasing BU. If it's an routine catch of a can of corn fly ball, I don't know of any organization that requires the verbal "Out" call, just like we don't normally use a verbal "Out" when the BR gets thrown out at first base by tens of feet.

Are there organizations out there that require a verbal "Out" call for every fly ball catch by a chasing BU? I do believe that the PU should verbalize, but that's for the benefit of his/her partners knowing that a catch was made.

Not sure when the "chasing BU" snuck into this thread, but from my OP, NFHS requires a verbal by PU:

The NFHS covers it under Movement from the Plate in item 4.

“On fly balls to the outfield not near the foul line, move to obtain a good angle to the catch versus straight at the fielder catching the ball. If the ball is caught, give an out signal and a verbal ‘out’ call.”

Page 24 of USA Umpire Manual.

ROUTINE OUT & STRIKE

4) ... as you verbalize the out call.

Not the sell out, mind you. The routine out call.

So back to the original question: verbalize a fly ball out?

I'm having trouble with why it matters. :confused:

Also, there is often no reason to assume differences in rule books and manuals are deliberate. :rolleyes:

USA Softball instructs the umpire to verbalize "out" as part of the out mechanic (USA Softball Umpire Manual, pg. 24)

Yeah, sorry for the mix-up. I thought we were talking about a chasing BU, not the PU. I concur that the PU should always verbalize, mostly to let his/her partner(s) know.

That said, I see no compelling reason for the PU to do that in one-man.