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-   -   USA Softball Ten Second Rule vs. Foot in Box Rule (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/102821-usa-softball-ten-second-rule-vs-foot-box-rule.html)

Manny A Wed Jul 19, 2017 02:10pm

USA Softball Ten Second Rule vs. Foot in Box Rule
 
So rule 7-3-C states that the JO batter must be in the batter's box within 10 seconds after being directed to do so by the umpire. I was always led to believe that the 10-second rule applies only when the batter is first coming up to bat. But there are some who say these 10 seconds also apply between pitches.

That's not how I read 7-3-D. That's the rule requiring the JO batter to keep one foot in the box between pitches. There is nothing in the rule that says the batter is allowed to keep one foot in the box while looking at her coach for signals, and to take practice swings, as long as she doesn't exceed 10 seconds. It just says she is to keep one foot in the box, period. If she takes a full 10 seconds to step out, look at the coach, look down at her arm band, and take a couple of swings, she hasn't violated anything. 7-3-C says the 10 seconds start when the umpire directs the batter to get in the box; if he/she doesn't say anything to the batter while she's looking at her coach with just one foot in the box, the clock isn't running, correct?

Conversely, if the batter steps completely out of the box with both feet, and the umpire gives the batter a warning to keep one foot in the box, is that direction that starts that 10-second clock? I don't see that in 7-3-D. The Effect sentence says that if the batter leaves the box "and delays play", the PU can penalize the batter with a strike. To me, "and delays play" could be less than 10 seconds, could it not? If I see a batter take three or four steps out of the box and I tell her to keep one foot in, and she does it again and I remind her again, and she does it yet again for a third straight pitch, where does it say I have to wait 10 seconds after the third warning before I can rule a dead ball strike on her? I should be able to rule that strike immediately if she keeps screwing up and leaving the box, right?

RKBUmp Wed Jul 19, 2017 03:30pm

I dont see where 7-3-c applies only to the first time the batter comes to the batters box. 7-3-a is the statement about both feet must be entirely within the batters box prior to the pitch and it applies to every pitch thrown, not just the first time the batter steps in. 7-3-d has 8 exceptions of why the batter could be out of the box between pitches and a reason for the umpire to instruct the batter to return to the box.

Tru_in_Blu Wed Jul 19, 2017 04:24pm

I'd say overall, JO games, particularly tournament events, move along pretty quickly.

I think there are probably both players and umpires who are mixing & matching NFHS and USA rules on occasion. NFHS doesn't require batters to keep a foot in the box as long as they're ready in 10 seconds or less.

As mentioned, there are so many exceptions to the batter keeping a foot in the box that I don't usually make a big deal about it.

I did have a couple of occasions in recent tournaments where I had to tell the batter something.

One was a catcher who would stand with one foot in the box and one out seemingly waiting for the pitcher to step onto the pitcher's plate. A simple "step in batter" fixed that for the rest of the game.

Another was a player that liked to go for a little stroll after every pitch. Again, one warning to "please keep one foot in the box" fixed it.

I've never been challenged by player or coach on this. Most realize we're just trying to keep the game moving.

IRISHMAFIA Wed Jul 19, 2017 09:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 1007926)
So rule 7-3-C states that the JO batter must be in the batter's box within 10 seconds after being directed to do so by the umpire. I was always led to believe that the 10-second rule applies only when the batter is first coming up to bat. But there are some who say these 10 seconds also apply between pitches.

It is throughout the game, 1st, 5th, 10th inning, there is no time this rule does not apply

Quote:

That's not how I read 7-3-D. That's the rule requiring the JO batter to keep one foot in the box between pitches. There is nothing in the rule that says the batter is allowed to keep one foot in the box while looking at her coach for signals, and to take practice swings, as long as she doesn't exceed 10 seconds. It just says she is to keep one foot in the box, period. If she takes a full 10 seconds to step out, look at the coach, look down at her arm band, and take a couple of swings, she hasn't violated anything.
Different rule. 7.3.D is specific to the batter's allowance, same as in MLB rules

Quote:

7-3-C says the 10 seconds start when the umpire directs the batter to get in the box; if he/she doesn't say anything to the batter while she's looking at her coach with just one foot in the box, the clock isn't running, correct?

Conversely, if the batter steps completely out of the box with both feet, and the umpire gives the batter a warning to keep one foot in the box, is that direction that starts that 10-second clock? I don't see that in 7-3-D. The Effect sentence says that if the batter leaves the box "and delays play", the PU can penalize the batter with a strike. To me, "and delays play" could be less than 10 seconds, could it not? If I see a batter take three or four steps out of the box and I tell her to keep one foot in, and she does it again and I remind her again, and she does it yet again for a third straight pitch, where does it say I have to wait 10 seconds after the third warning before I can rule a dead ball strike on her? I should be able to rule that strike immediately if she keeps screwing up and leaving the box, right?
Really overthinking this and trying to justify the interaction of two rules that are related only that they both pertain to the batter and the batter's box.

Manny A Thu Jul 20, 2017 08:48am

Alright, so tell me how we handle a batter who, after a couple of friendly reminders, continues to step completely out of the batter's box to get signals from the coach. Do we issue another verbal warning, and then count to 10 before we penalize her with a strike? Or can we penalize her with it immediately?

The reason I ask is because I've been told when I issue the verbal warning, "Blue, she has 10 seconds to be back in the box!"

IRISHMAFIA Thu Jul 20, 2017 09:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 1007952)
Alright, so tell me how we handle a batter who, after a couple of friendly reminders, continues to step completely out of the batter's box to get signals from the coach. Do we issue another verbal warning, and then count to 10 before we penalize her with a strike? Or can we penalize her with it immediately?

The reason I ask is because I've been told when I issue the verbal warning, "Blue, she has 10 seconds to be back in the box!"

You do just what the rule allows, you hit the batter with a strike. AGAIN, it has nothing to do with 10 seconds

Manny A Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 1007977)
You do just what the rule allows, you hit the batter with a strike. AGAIN, it has nothing to do with 10 seconds

Okay, there's some misconception out there that the one-foot-in-the-box rule is unnecessary because batters have 10 seconds between pitches to be ready, so why make it a big deal to force batters to keep one foot in? As long as they have those 10 seconds between pitches, who cares where they go as long as they're back and ready by the end of the countdown?

Tru_in_Blu Fri Jul 21, 2017 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 1007986)
As long as they have those 10 seconds between pitches, who cares where they go as long as they're back and ready by the end of the countdown?

THAT is the NFHS philosophy. And as I said earlier, there IS some mixing/matching of rule sets by practically everyone.

USA has the "foot in the box" rule with a bunch of exceptions where the batter doesn't have to keep a foot in the box.

"Move 'em along, Blue."

Dakota Fri Jul 21, 2017 07:07pm

I have always treated these rules as tools to keep the game moving. OOO enforcement is not appropriate, IMO.

IRISHMAFIA Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 1007986)
Okay, there's some misconception out there that the one-foot-in-the-box rule is unnecessary because batters have 10 seconds between pitches to be ready, so why make it a big deal to force batters to keep one foot in? As long as they have those 10 seconds between pitches, who cares where they go as long as they're back and ready by the end of the countdown?

So the batter should be permitted to run out to the coach for a quick un-charged conference if they can do it in 10 seconds?

Don't know how to make it any simpler. These are two separate rules.


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