protocol questions

[Tru_in_Blu]

I have a couple of questions regarding statements made by some of my plate umpire partners in recent tournaments (this year and last).

The first is about plate umpires asking both head coaches if "their teams are legally and properly equipped and will remain so for the entire game". This is clearly a requirement for NFHS officials that work high school games. I am not aware of any requirement within the USA rules or umpire manual that has us requesting this of coaches.

Some coaches who may not coach HS ball in NH just kind of look at the umpire quizzically and either just nod or reply affirmatively, not even sure about what they've just answered. My concern is that a coach who does do HS coaching in NH now already knows that the particular official is not sure of the sanction s/he is officiating.

When I asked one partner why he asked that of the coaches, he claimed that a "lawyer" told him/her that asking the coaches to assume the responsibility for "proper equipment" would ease any liability on him/her if there was ever a claim against him/her due to an injury related to faulty or illegal equipment. Not sure I buy that, but whatever.

The second issue regards the jewelry rule. NFHS allows no jewelry at all. USA leaves it up to the umpire's discretion. One partner recently declared that s/he deems "all jewelry to be dangerous and therefore no jewelry is allowed". One base partner, actually piped up during the plate conference that no jewelry would be allowed in the game when s/he saw a player wearing stud earrings. I do allow certain pieces of jewelry to be worn in USA games such as stud earrings or even nose studs. I won't allow any dangling-type pieces such as hoop earrings or nose rings. Back to my partner at the plate conference, I said that I was the UIC for this particular game and I would determine what was dangerous.

One thing that is becoming more and more common is the wrist bands folks are wearing to track their steps, number of flights of stairs, and/or heart rates. I normally ask players to remove what I'd consider to be a traditional wrist-watch or a bracelet with attachments. I've been allowing the fitness-type devices. I don't know if USA will address this or simply leave it up to discretion of the umpire(s), as it is now.

Just thought I'd pose the questions to get some inputs and/or discussion.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I have a couple of questions regarding statements made by some of my plate umpire partners in recent tournaments (this year and last).

The first is about plate umpires asking both head coaches if "their teams are legally and properly equipped and will remain so for the entire game". This is clearly a requirement for NFHS officials that work high school games. I am not aware of any requirement within the USA rules or umpire manual that has us requesting this of coaches.

Some coaches who may not coach HS ball in NH just kind of look at the umpire quizzically and either just nod or reply affirmatively, not even sure about what they've just answered. My concern is that a coach who does do HS coaching in NH now already knows that the particular official is not sure of the sanction s/he is officiating.

When I asked one partner why he asked that of the coaches, he claimed that a "lawyer" told him/her that asking the coaches to assume the responsibility for "proper equipment" would ease any liability on him/her if there was ever a claim against him/her due to an injury related to faulty or illegal equipment. Not sure I buy that, but whatever.

The second issue regards the jewelry rule. NFHS allows no jewelry at all. USA leaves it up to the umpire's discretion. One partner recently declared that s/he deems "all jewelry to be dangerous and therefore no jewelry is allowed". One base partner, actually piped up during the plate conference that no jewelry would be allowed in the game when s/he saw a player wearing stud earrings. I do allow certain pieces of jewelry to be worn in USA games such as stud earrings or even nose studs. I won't allow any dangling-type pieces such as hoop earrings or nose rings. Back to my partner at the plate conference, I said that I was the UIC for this particular game and I would determine what was dangerous.

One thing that is becoming more and more common is the wrist bands folks are wearing to track their steps, number of flights of stairs, and/or heart rates. I normally ask players to remove what I'd consider to be a traditional wrist-watch or a bracelet with attachments. I've been allowing the fitness-type devices. I don't know if USA will address this or simply leave it up to discretion of the umpire(s), as it is now.

Just thought I'd pose the questions to get some inputs and/or discussion.

re: the NFHS "properly equiped" question. I agree with you.

re: the partner's jewelry statement, it is his judgment, and I would not throw him under the bus at the plate meeting. He can act on his judgment, and you on yours, but no public scolding, no overruling.

re: fitbits et al... in NFHS, illegal; in ASA, umpire judgment and I expect that to remain the case.

[tcannizzo]

U-trip requires both.

[AtlUmpSteve]

While any UIC or local area sanction may suggest (or require) that you ask if players are legally or properly equipped, the legal reality is that you are p'ing in the wind, unless it is an actual NFHS sanctioned game. The legal concept of in loco parentis, meaning in the place of a parent, only applies in high school. So ask anyone other than a high school coach, and the result is 1) they have no legal standing to waive YOUR (and others) liability, and 2) you are proving to anyone with a clue that you have no clue.

Each sanction is free to describe jewelry and its' legality as it chooses. When the sanction allows the umpire's determination of safety or legality, each umpire in a crew may have different judgements; but we need to support our partner's call in this area, just like any other call we may question.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

While any UIC or local area sanction may suggest (or require) that you ask if players are legally or properly equipped, the legal reality is that you are p'ing in the wind, unless it is an actual NFHS sanctioned game. The legal concept of in loco parentis, meaning in the place of a parent, only applies in high school. So ask anyone other than a high school coach, and the result is 1) they have no legal standing to waive YOUR (and others) liability, and 2) you are proving to anyone with a clue that you have no clue.

Even in NFHS, it cannot stop someone from taking action against you or anyone else. While you will most likely prevail in NFHS, I don't think even God knows what is going to happen once something is in the legal system

[Tru_in_Blu]

Five or six years ago we had a local invitational tournament sanctioned by ASA. The UIC for the tournament included a statement declaring "no jewelry of any kind would be permitted" when he sent out tournament rules.

The state UIC had him retract that statement and stressed that this would be an individual umpire's judgment, per ASA rules.

If I have a belief that only certain types of jewelry might be considered dangerous, but my base partner chooses to invoke the NFHS rule at our plate conference, who has overruled whom? (Is that the correct grammar? )

Do we treat this like someone calling "shotgun" when taking a road trip? He who says it first gets the final say?

I'm fine when said partner is the PU, and he chooses to invoke the NFHS version of the jewelry rule. I'm not going to say anything. But for him to declare that when he did, well, I think he overstepped his bounds.

I've had several partners (as PU) state no jewelry of any kind is allowed. I mentally just roll my eyes (maybe physically, also) and think it's the lazy way out. If you aren't able to decide or arbitrate, just go with the blanket coverage.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

While any UIC or local area sanction may suggest (or require) that you ask if players are legally or properly equipped, the legal reality is that you are p'ing in the wind, unless it is an actual NFHS sanctioned game. The legal concept of in loco parentis, meaning in the place of a parent, only applies in high school. So ask anyone other than a high school coach, and the result is 1) they have no legal standing to waive YOUR (and others) liability, and 2) you are proving to anyone with a clue that you have no clue.
.

You can sue anyone for anything. Whether or not you prevail comes later. Still costs you $$.