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-   -   World Series call/no call discussion (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/102715-world-series-call-no-call-discussion.html)

SWFLguy Sat Jun 03, 2017 05:29pm

World Series call/no call discussion
 
I thought last night's safe call on the runner going to home was pretty bad. If that's not running out of one's base path, nothing is. I bet the PU wishes they could see it again/take it back. The TV folks sure agree as they played it back a lot and more today. I didn't have my sound on and did not hear any discussion till today. Also the UCLA coach going ballistic over a perceived obstruction. That no call was correct in my mind. Train wrecks at home are not totally avoidable.

teebob21 Sat Jun 03, 2017 05:45pm

I just watched the UCLA/TAMU play at the plate. I think this is a good OBS no call. IMHO, the position of the catcher did not impede or hinder the runner until the catcher was in the act of catching.

The ejection appeared warranted as well, although we should not step towards game participants when ejecting; we should step away. The bump after the EJ was just plain uncalled for. That's a suspension.

SC Official Sat Jun 03, 2017 07:27pm

Basketball/football guy here

What are the rules/philosophies in softball regarding assistants arguing calls? In basketball most officials have a very short leash for assistants misbehaving before assessing a technical foul. Applying my basketball knowledge to softball, I was surprised she wasn't tossed sooner, but I also have never umpired before.

IRISHMAFIA Sat Jun 03, 2017 07:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1006425)
Basketball/football guy here

What are the rules/philosophies in softball regarding assistants arguing calls? In basketball most officials have a very short leash for assistants misbehaving before assessing a technical foul. Applying my basketball knowledge to softball, I was surprised she wasn't tossed sooner, but I also have never umpired before.

Couldn't care less what the individual's position is on the team, they have the right to represent their team in a professional manner. all are equally liable to be ejected as necessary

MT 73 Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:35pm

Only the head coach is permitted to approach an umpire.
Assistants are to be seen and not heard.

RKBUmp Sun Jun 04, 2017 07:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MT 73 (Post 1006431)
Only the head coach is permitted to approach an umpire.
Assistants are to be seen and not heard.

Please show me the rule stating that. I hear this over and over again from officials and yet there is no rule saying anything of the sort. The head coach is ultimately responsible for the actions of their coaching staff, but there is no rule saying only the head coach may interact with the officials.

IRISHMAFIA Sun Jun 04, 2017 08:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MT 73 (Post 1006431)
Only the head coach is permitted to approach an umpire.
Assistants are to be seen and not heard.

Simply not true. That is truly OOO.

MT 73 Sun Jun 04, 2017 09:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 1006440)
Please show me the rule stating that. I hear this over and over again from officials and yet there is no rule saying anything of the sort. The head coach is ultimately responsible for the actions of their coaching staff, but there is no rule saying only the head coach may interact with the officials.

It is not in the rules but is accepted practice.
Since you hear this over and over again perhaps this should have sunk in by now.
If you guys want to take crap from an assistant coach or a score keeper be my guest.
I suppose you also allow assistants at your pre game plate conference?

RKBUmp Sun Jun 04, 2017 09:43am

Why wouldnt I allow any coach that wants to attend the pregame conference to present. In fact, if you read the NFHS umpires manual regarding the pregame conference it says any coach who wishes to attend may do so. The only requirement in NFHS is that the head coach must be present.

And no, nothing needs to sink in. Just because numerous officials have a superiority complex saying they wont talk to anyone but the head coach regardless of it not being in the rule book does not make it proper or accepted it merely makes it one of those myths perpetuated by officials, much like the numerous rule myths passed on year after year by unknowing parents and coaches. By your train of thought, head coach at 3rd base, assistant coach at 1st and a pulled foot on a close play at 1st base. You would require the assistant coach to go to the head coach, tell them what they say and then have the head coach go to the calling official to ask for assistance on the call.

Or, how about a situation that involves some obscure rule. The assistant coach knows the rule but the head coach does not. Again, you are going to require the assistant coach to go to the head coach, and then the head coach to come to the officials. Then, if there is further question on the rule, the head coach must run back and forth between their assistant and the umpires in order to discuss the situation because "assistants should be seen and not heard"?

There is absolutely nothing in writing anywhere saying only the head coach may interact with the officials. As Irish just said, anyone who claims so is being beyond overly officious.

AtlUmpSteve Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:46am

A team hires a pitching coach, because the head coach knows little to nothing about pitching. An umpire (doesn't matter which) calls an illegal pitch; the team sends out a representative asking for clarification of the call made.

Personally, I WANT to talk to the pitching coach, who is more likely to understand what it is I'm saying, so the pitcher can fix it and I won't have to keep calling the same violation.

MT 73, you have been taught and practice the baseball philosophy intended to promote a chain of command to manage the game. That isn't the prevailing softball philosophy; in collegiate games, you will lose conference assignments and be dropped off conference staffs if you practice that at that level. Even if you survive, that current assistant will be a head coach some day, and will remember you as the umpire that treated her like dirt.

MT 73 Sun Jun 04, 2017 04:39pm

I keep assistant coaches on a short leash.
If they ask in a respectful manner I will respond likewise.
If they get in my face to argue, or start making snide comments I will call time and inform the head coach to get the offender in line.
After that I inform the offender to knock it off or face an ejection.
Which, BTW, I have never had to do since by that time they get it.
I do not do college nor NHFS so if being warm and fuzzy is necessary on the road to advancement then I wish you all the best of luck.
BTW-- I coached high level travel ball for years and if one of my assistants tried to argue a call I would have fired him in a NY minute.
I also told my parents that if they ever got into it with an umpire their daughter would be benched for the rest of the game.
Youth sports would be a lot more enjoyable for all if head coaches would take better charge of everyone-- coaches, assistants, parents and players.

IRISHMAFIA Sun Jun 04, 2017 05:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MT 73 (Post 1006447)
It is not in the rules but is accepted practice.

No where of which I am aware

Quote:

Since you hear this over and over again perhaps this should have sunk in by now.
If you guys want to take crap from an assistant coach or a score keeper be my guest.
I suppose you also allow assistants at your pre game plate conference?
I've heard it before and promptly corrected the situation and umpire. It is the act of an over-officious official. As a coach, I would openly refuse to accept your direction.

MT 73 Sun Jun 04, 2017 06:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 1006463)
No where of which I am aware



I've heard it before and promptly corrected the situation and umpire. It is the act of an over-officious official. As a coach, I would openly refuse to accept your direction.

My HS association only allows captains and head coaches at the pregame conference.
If as a coach you refused to accept this or ANY other of my directions you would be dumped and reported.

RKBUmp Sun Jun 04, 2017 06:21pm

Thought you didn't work high school?

CecilOne Sun Jun 04, 2017 06:22pm

Lets not get any testier or negatively personal. :rolleyes:


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