Missed plate after home run
 

Bama/Ole Miss game on TV-Batter misses home plate after hitting an apparent homer. Plate umpire hands the catcher a new ball moments after the batter missed home. The catcher tags the batter, and the plate umpire calls the batter out.

My question is this: How long does the batter have to return home before being liable to be put out. She had not reached the dugout.

Thanks in advance

As soon as she missed the plate she was subject to appeal.

After reviewing the dead ball appeal procedures my initial comment above is incorrect. Runner must be given opportunity to correct running error prior to the umpire honoring appeal. But, the length of time to complete thier base running when they miss home plate is at the judgement of the umpire.

Is the answer the same for USA/NFHS? It seems like this is a situation where the runner has a chance to complete baserunning duties (including fixing errors) before an appeal can be granted.

The rule does say the runner must be given the opportunity to complete their base running responsibilities prior to honoring the appeal, but it does not say the runner has until they enter the dugout. The umpire gave the runner plenty of time to correct their error, they were celebrating with their teammates walking toward the dugout. I would guess the umpire considered that sufficient time to have fixed the missed base and honored the appeal.

Not sure if you're trying to give a different description of the actual play that inspired the OP, but I agree that is a valid time to honor the appeal. I just don't agree that the moment she missed the plate is it.

Been a long time since I went through the dead ball appeal process, does not come up that often especially with base awards and dead balls.

I was incorrect in my original comment about as soon as the runner missed home, by rule she must be given the opportunity to correct the error, but that becomes umpire judgement as to how much time she has to correct it.

Well apparently in NCAA there is an approved ruling on this stating the ball must be made live before an appeal can be made and the runner has until they enter the dugout to return and touch home plate. I dont have access to the approved rulings, just saw it posted in another forum.

USA does have a case play where the runner misses the plate but is pushed back by a team member to touch it. I believe it's the only example where you can have an "assisting the runner" out during a dead ball.

I'm guessing, though, in the case of a 2-run homer, where it's the previous runner who pushes the hitter back to the plate (as opposed to a coach or non-involved player), there wouldn't be a problem there...

Here is the NCAA Approved Ruling on a similar situation that Richard mentioned above. I found it doing a Google search (not doing a cut/paste from the NCAA Central Hub), but the latest version is verbatim except for the rule reference of 12.22.5.5:

As I read that:
1. The defense cannot legally perform a dead-ball appeal until the "ball is put back in play", so in this play, the dead ball appeal was prematurely allowed since the next batter wasn't summoned to the batter's box.
2. The runner is allowed to return and touch home, even after she sets up the conga line to do the post-game ritual. If that's the case in the AR, then I believe this particular runner can also return to touch home until the point where she enters the dugout and gives up her ability to return onto the field to fix her mistake.

So I think the home run should have stood in this play. There was some discussion that a Bama coach or one of her teammates pushed the runner back to go touch the plate, which is another story. Absent that, however, I don't see why the runner should be disallowed to touch home if she remains on the field.

Dead Ball Appeal Situation
May 2, 2017
Situation: The batter hits an out-of-the-park home run but does not touch home plate. How
does the defense make an appeal without the ball?
Ruling: The runner can return and touch home plate as long as she has not entered the dugout.
By rule, a runner may not return to touch a missed base if she has touched the final base of her
award (see Rule 12.22.4.5) so the only base she can return to on an out-of-the-park home run is
home plate. If she has gone into the dugout she has left the field of play and cannot return to
touch the plate (Rule 12.22.5.1).
This is a dead ball appeal. The appeal cannot be made until the ball is put back in play (Rule
7.1.2.2.3). Handing the ball to the catcher and her throwing it to the pitcher does not “put the
ball back in play”. By rule, with the ball out of play, the defense cannot appeal a missed base
until the ball is put back in play, the defense is in position, the next batter summoned to the
batter’s box and the umpire indicates “Play Ball” (Rule 6.10.4).
A dead ball remains dead until an umpire indicates resumption of play (Rule 1.14).

So in other words, in NCAA if the ball goes out of play there is no such thing as a dead ball appeal for any infraction. The ball has to be put back into live play before any appeal can be made.

And furthermore to extrapolate the logic one does not have to run out a walk off HR?

The coach in the white long sleeve shirt saw her miss the plate and was trying to get her attention to go back and touch it.
Before the home run hitter could enter the dugout she grabbed her and guided her back towards the plate.
Would that qualify for an out?

The NCAA rule for runner assistance violations only occur during a live ball. See rule 12.8.3.

That's right. Thanks.
I do not do NCAA but I think the same rule applies USA and NHFS.
Now in this case was the appeal legit?
Does the ball have to be made live for an appeal in NCAA?

NFHS: It's not clear if assisting the runner could only be called during a live ball. Their rule says that a coach may not assist a runner "during playing action". Does that mean when the ball is live? Nothing in the their case book seems to address this point.

USA/ASA: Their rule states that the ball must be live to call assisting a runner. But...they also have a case play where a runner misses home plate, after on over the fence home run, and is pushed back toward the plate just before entering the dugout. The ruling is that this runner would be out. So, it's the lone exception to their rule.

This sounds like one of those rules where the printed rule pretty much matches throughout multiple organizations, but they've issued interpretations that deviate away from each other, based on various "what if" and "maybe" scenarios.

Kind of like with an intentionally dropped ball. The rules all agree that you can't intentionally drop the ball in certain situations. But I can think of at least four different ways that a "dropped ball" is defined by four different sanctioning bodies!

The USA book talks about a runner who misses home plate and is assisted back to the plate as out in a live ball situation. ( Section 7 Exception E)
Where is the rule about this being true during a dead ball?

USA case play, last sentence.

PLAY 8.7-12
R1 slides and misses home plate. The on-deck batter pushes R1 back toward home plate.
RULING: The ball becomes dead when the on-deck batter assists R1 after scoring. R1 is ruled out and the run nullified. “Dead ball” runner assistance only occurs after a runner has scored. (8-7E EXCEPTION)

That's the case play I was remembering. But now...upon further review...I'm thinking that maybe it's not saying what I thought it said.

While that last sentence seems to suggest that you can have runner assistance when the ball is dead under a certain circumstance, the play itself happened during a live ball. My memory was that there is a case play with the miss of home coming during a dead ball. But I wasn't able to find that one so maybe it doesn't exist!

I thought the same thing as you, until a reread the rule and then the case play and realized what it is actually saying. Whoever worded it could have done a much better job. It should say, The only time the ball becomes dead for runner assistance is after a runner has scored. The way it reads now it is very easy to mistake for the runner is out if assisted after scoring during a dead ball.

I thought I had deleted the post but apparently it didnt.

The natural conundrum is that withholding the ball until the runner corrects her base-running blunder by physically touching home plate (or, more to the point, until the runner indicates that she has failed to do so) is a tip-off to both the defense and offense that the umpire observed the runner missing home plate, which, naturally, isn't something an umpire should be communicating to either team until and unless an appeal is requested.

The NCAA attempted to solve the crisis by issuing the following statement: "By rule, with the ball out of play, the defense cannot appeal a missed base until the ball is put back in play, the defense is in position, the next batter summoned to the batter’s box and the umpire indicates 'Play Ball.'"

The NCAA's interpretation is at odds with its rulebook, which may necessitate a rules change this offseason to specifically cover this situation.

Even the aforementioned NCAA-issued bulletin incorrectly cites the phrase "ball is put back in play" for Rule 7.1.2.2.3 when that specific rule says no such thing. It says "places a new ball into the game." "The game" encompasses all aspects of events on the field—from beginning to end—and includes both live and dead ball periods. "In play," however, refers only to live ball action. The language should be changed to reflect the rest of the rulebook to eliminate this inconsistency.

But that's softball, where dead ball appeals are valid, as they are in high school, where "Runners must be given ample opportunity, in the umpire’s judgment, to complete their base running responsibilities."

But at the point of the assistance, the ball was live. IMO, this rule should be change to include runners who are legally advancing during a dead ball period.