Miscellaneous Rules
 

Miscellaneous Rules that recently needed correcting or teaching.

This is not a questions and answers topic.
My intent is to list little things for which some need reminders or clarification.
.................................................. .................................................. .......

1 – For a runner to be called out for being out of the base path, she must be avoiding an attempted tag.
2 – The running lane rule and the 3 foot out rule are two separate things.
3 – The running lane rule has exceptions,
- errant or foul ground throw and
- last step if a single base.
4 - A runner does not have to follow a displaced base, even if displaced before she arrived.

It's not interference if the batter strikes out on an uncaught third strike, and then runs to first when she is not allowed to (first base occupied with less than two outs) and draws a throw from the catcher.

A fair batted ball that hits the top of the fence in flight and then bounces over is a home run.

Dirt is not a foreign substance.

The offense cannot ask for a checked swing appeal after the plate umpire rules that the batter offered for a strike.

No rule about players standing in dugout openings.

No rule requiring on deck circles to be 45' from home plate.

No rule stating a coach on offense cannot make more than 1 substitution at a time.

Runners may advance with liability to be put out when a fly ball is first touched, rather than caught.

Unlike in baseball, obstructed runners are not awarded bases if they do not attempt to advance after the OBS.

"Unlike in baseball, obstructed runners are not awarded bases if they do not attempt to advance after the OBS."

Not sure how to interpret your statement. the double negatives are confusing me as to the meaning of your comment.

If a girl would have made 2nd base but was knocked on her butt at 1st base because the 1st baseman was in her way and finally gets up and stays at 1st base, do you say you would not award her 2nd base? I don't see where an attempt is required. An example is that by the time she got back on her feet, if the ball was sitting at 2nd base, she's probably not going to go. But if it was an obstruction that clearly prevented her from advancing and reaching 2nd safely, I would be awarding her 2nd. Would you not award her 2nd in this situation?

Runners are not automatically advanced when obstructed; judge the base the runner would have obtained w/o OBS.
In that other game, there is an automatic advance. His point is not to apply another game's rule in a softball game.

See the bolded phrases, IF you really judge she would have reached 2nd.

In some codes of baseball, if the runner was obstructed between 1st and 2nd, and the umpire judged he would not have obtained 2nd base (say ... shortstop had the ball at the moment of obstruction by F3 near 1st), the ruling is still to award 2nd... this is not true in softball. There is a punitive part to the OBS ruling in some codes of baseball.

Be careful on this obstruction discussion not being punitive in softball. It is in NCAA play when the fielder who obstructs has previously been warned for obstructing a runner rounding a base or returning to a base, or if she obstructs the runner's line of vision to the pitcher so that the runner cannot see when the pitch is released. In those situations, a subsequent violation by the same player will result in a one-base award.

Very true. NCAA only ... but still true.

Well, apparently the NCAA also allows infielders to get a free out by throwing at runners that don't go "poof" after being put out, so not going to weigh heavily on what they say :)

Great, thanks. I did not know that other game makes an automatic base award. I think we are in agreement on dealing with obstruction in softball and even though I don't do college, i was aware of the award after warning in NCAA. Seen it happen as a spectator a couple of times.

I didn't mean to blow up this thread with my comment, but in that other game, I think it's called "Type A". I could be wrong.

Regardless...I only added it to the thread because we had a wreck in a HS game at 1B, and my partner awarded bases. I tried to get him to fix it, but after he said "Sorry sir, I'd like to stick with my call", I let it go.

Let the coaches complain...(they didn't). "Sir" is reserved for coaches, assignors, and evaluators, not something to throw out on a partner during a discussion on the field....I hate to admit that we weren't much of an umpire team after that.

double base rule
 

USA rules.

We all know that the double base rule only applies to a play at first from the fair side of the 1st base line. A coach asked whether the foul side exception applied when there is no throw. The book says "attempt", not throw; so yes it does.

The play: fair ball off F3 goes into foul ground, picked up by F3 in foul ground, who runs to 1st, beating the BR but touching only the foul side of the base.
BR called out.

Any disagreement or exception you know?

I believe there is a case play of the exact situation. Any play that takes the fielder into foul ground they can use the safety base. About the only things the defense can't do with the safety base is field the ball in fair territory and then only step on the safety base or set up on the safety base for a throw from fair territory.

Out is the correct call.

14U Class C tournament this weekend: Strike 3 is uncaught, and bounces off of F2 and rolls in fair ground to F1. F1 throws poorly to 1B, where F3 catches the ball on the safety base well before the BR arrives. BU called the BR safe. I think that's an out, too. Errant throw exception, 8.2.N(5).

At this same tournament, several umpires had a WAY TOO LONG discussion on the topic of "hands are part of the bat".

"Class C" :rolleyes:

One of the dumbest rule exceptions in the book

Any, ANY discussion on this is too long. Apparently, the Class C tournament had some umpires who still need a lot of training, or at least some remedial reading comprehension :)

Agree. I could never understand why the rules would allow the defense to catch a break when an infielder's wild throw to first base causes F3 to have to use the colored bag. I understand the theory behind it; they don't want F3 to cross into the BR's path to touch the white bag. But how often would something like that happen?

It was changed by the present regime. When the double-base (or safety-base as it was called at that time) first hit the field, the interpretation was that the throw that took the defender into foul territory and away from the base, s/he could then use the colored portion. The key to the interp was that the "errant" throw (which ASA/USA still refuses to define) took the defender away from the base also removed them from the runner's path to be able to use the colored portion. The present regime takes the wording literally and considers simply moving into foul territory (which is where the colored base is located) give the defender the right to use that base even though it places both runner and defender in jeopardy of physical injury. The interpretation completely contradicts the purpose of the rule.

I did have to teach a coach about hands vs. bat again this weekend. Batter HBP in the hand.
DC came out to question that aren't the "hands part of the bat". [B]

He also then asked that if on a swing the ball hit the hand (actually hand hit the ball) it would then be a HBP.
After I explained, he finally realized that it would then be a strike.

Also, AGAIN :eek:, it is not obstruction if the fielder has the ball before blocking the base.

AGAIN, :eek: it is not obstruction if the runner is not hindered, even if the fielder is just enjoying the scenery. ;)


I guess that's all for this week. :)

Was playing a 12U tournament 2 weekends ago. NFHS rules with "licensed" officials. Field umpire in position C. Runners on 1st and 3rd. Batter hits a hard ground ball that bounced off the umpire's right leg who was literally standing in the grass. :eek: My left fielder adjusted, fielded the ball, and held the runners at 1st and 2nd. The runner on 3rd scored. Field umpire immediately called dead ball and awarded the batter 2nd base. In unison, both myself (DC) and the OC said "YOU ARE PART OF THE FIELD". PU fixed it.

The best answer I've seen to the hands are part of the bat was an umpire who told the coach to get a bat. "Do you see any hands that are part of this bat?. No. Then the hands are not part of the bat."

I umpired my first season of softball this year. In what turned out to be my last game date, I called a dead ball strike when the batter swung and got hit by the pitch. With a 1-2 count, it was also strike 3, so I called her out, despite the coach's insistence she needed to go to first base. Finally, he asked if the hands were part of the bat.

Me (thinking): Only if her hands drop with the bat.
Me (answering coach): "No, they aren't."

Good for you in standing your ground. Why is there such a delusion about hands and a bat? Did the President of the United States say that in a speech decades ago? The myths of baseball and softball rules amaze me sometimes. Another one that amazes me is the belief that a batter cannot switch sides of the plate during an at-bat. I've seen coaches and parents behind the screen almost lose their mind over that one.

We learned a new rule this weekend.

A runner was caught in a rundown between third and home. With a head-first slide she was safe at home.

Defensive coach claimed that the runner was out because she was not allowed to slide head first. And she knew it was true because one of her runners was called out for that same offense in a tournament 2 weeks ago. AND, she knew she had see it in writing.

We continued on with the game after the PU gave her 3 minutes to find the reference in the rules book.

She never did find that reference.

In all fairness, I've heard umpires cite goofy, yet non-existent, rules regarding sliding. Here are two separate instances from my pre-officiating days

Story #1: In the nightcap of a JV doubleheader, the umpire called a girl out for not sliding into home with a play at the plate :confused::eek:. In the subsequent half-inning, the same play happened, but when the coach asked why she wasn't called out, he said something to the effect there was no such rule :mad:.

Story #2: In a different season, the JV team was on defense and retired the batter-runner at first for the third out of the inning. During the time between innings, the umpire tells our coach, "She would have been been out anyways for sliding into first" (the BR had slid into first in her attempt to beat the throw). :(

Two from this weekend, USA SB (or any I know):

A) bases loaded, R2 interferes with F6. R2 out, R1 stays at 3rd, R3 to 2nd, BR awarded 1st. Easy, except the OC insisted R1 should score on a "bases loaded exception".
OK, anyone have a book that says that? :eek:

B) R1 on 1st, ball 4 goes out of play. R1 to 2nd, BR to 1st.
OC insists that R1 gets 3rd on the dead ball pitch because she would get 2nd on the walk. Easy, two separate actions and rules, except coach prolongs the discussion and my partner was not sure.

Again, not questions, just highlighting needs for instructing coaches.

Same OC? ;)

You might think so, but the world has more than one of those. :rolleyes:

Same tourney though. :(

A batted (or thrown) ball which goes out of play is dead, regardless of whether the fielder raises her/his hands and regardless of where (e.g., past the outfield fence in foul ground).

And conversely,
Just because the fielder raises her / his hands, the ball is not necessarily dead.

Yes, I should have said that, great pickup. :o

Often explain to coaches, etc.; it is just an "I didn't touch it" signal. :rolleyes: