What's the call?

[chapmaja]

Had the following recently in WRECK ball (youth). What's the call?

Play 1: Bases loaded, 2 outs. Ground ball to F5, who runs over and touches 3rd 15 feet before the runner arrives. While the runner was running between 2nd and 3rd, she had to run around F6 who was parked in the middle of the base path.

Play 2: Batted ball is popped up about 10 feet in the air and comes down, off the catchers glove and in between her chest protector and her uniform, from which she grabs the ball securely

(my play she never secured it and it went all the way to the ground)- so I ruled a Foul ball as it was touched in foul territory.

[Ed Maeder]

1. Obstruction safe at third.
2. Catch as ball never touched the ground.

[BlueDevilRef]

Looks like outs in both cases to me. I'm not calling obstruction as that play is described. Grounded out to 3b.

[CecilOne]

The crux in play 1 is whether it was OBS and no exceptions.
Assuming it was, the runner can not be out between 2nd & 3rd.
Even if judged not to reach 3rd w/o OBS; the other runners are safe at 2nd & 1st, so 3rd must be awarded.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

I'm not calling obstruction as that play is described.

Why?

[RKBUmp]

A fielder not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding a batted ball may not impede the progress of a runner. In the play described F6 neither had the ball nor was in the process of fielding a batted ball and cannot impede the runner. How are you going to explain to a coach your reason for not calling obstruction? You may not like the rule in this particular situation, but it is our job to enforce the rules as written.

[BoomerSooner]

I would call obstruction on this play as described because the OP expresses the judgement that the fielder's position cause the runner to have to alter her path.

That said, there is an element of judgement to this call without contact between the runner and fielder, which makes it possible that there isn't obstruction on this play. I realize contact isn't required to make the call, but without contact we have to consider the runner's path and the fielder's actions. I've always looked at it how imminent contact is based on the fielder's actions if the runner continues on the same path. In other words, if F6 has her back to the runner, is completely stationary and in the runner's path to 3rd, then I'm giving the runner the benefit of the doubt if she has to alter her path to get to 3rd base. Conversely, if F6 is moving into position to field a potentially thrown ball (read as not immediately in the act of receiving a throw) from the outfield and cuts across the path of the runner who then alters her path in some way, I've got to determine how necessary it was for her to alter her path.

Again in the situation from the OP, I'm deferring to the judgement of the umpire that was there and my interpretation is that obstruction is the OP's assessment. In general, though, the runner altering her path like this doesn't automatically lead to an obstruction call as I see it.

[jmkupka]

"Conversely, if F6 is moving into position to field a potentially thrown ball (read as not immediately in the act of receiving a throw) from the outfield and cuts across the path of the runner who then alters her path in some way, I've got to determine how necessary it was for her to alter her path."


Not relevant, Boomer. As others have stated in previous posts, not in possession and not fielding a batted ball= OBS

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

I've always looked at it how imminent contact is based on the fielder's actions if the runner continues on the same path.

You're putting a LOT of stuff into the rule that simply isn't there. The rule is simple.

Assuming we're not talking about a fielder fielding a batted ball...
A) was the fielder, without possession of the ball, in the way of the runner;
If so...
B) did the runner alter their course (change direction or slow)

If so ... it's obstruction. No need to determine how imminent contact would be based ... yadda yadda... Keep it simple.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

A fielder not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding a batted ball may not impede the progress of a runner. In the play described F6 neither had the ball nor was in the process of fielding a batted ball and cannot impede the runner. How are you going to explain to a coach your reason for not calling obstruction? You may not like the rule in this particular situation, but it is our job to enforce the rules as written.

Coach: Blue, my runner was obstructed coming off of 2nd base.
Umpire: Didn't see it coach, I was watching the third baseman tag 3rd base for the out.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Coach: Blue, my runner was obstructed coming off of 2nd base.
Umpire: Didn't see it coach, I was watching the third baseman tag 3rd base for the out.

TANGENT:

Bases loaded, base hit to outfield.
BU watching R3, BR
PU watching ball, then R1 scoring. R2 obstructed by F6, neither ump saw it.
PU responsibility as a 3rd base "play", right?

[Umpire@1]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

A fielder not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding a batted ball may not impede the progress of a runner. In the play described F6 neither had the ball nor was in the process of fielding a batted ball and cannot impede the runner. How are you going to explain to a coach your reason for not calling obstruction? You may not like the rule in this particular situation, but it is our job to enforce the rules as written.

In the original play there was no mention if a throw coming in from the OF, so why do you bring that into the question/play. This reminds me of one of our meetings when someone as a question and we start getting 8-10 What is's.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by Umpire@1

In the original play there was no mention if a throw coming in from the OF, so why do you bring that into the question/play. This reminds me of one of our meetings when someone as a question and we start getting 8-10 What is's.

Im at a complete loss here. The OP had no throw at all and I never said anything about a throw from anywhere. What am I missing?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Had the following recently in WRECK ball (youth). What's the call?

Play 1: Bases loaded, 2 outs. Ground ball to F5, who runs over and touches 3rd 15 feet before the runner arrives. While the runner was running between 2nd and 3rd, she had to run around F6 who was parked in the middle of the base path.

Play 2: Batted ball is popped up about 10 feet in the air and comes down, off the catchers glove and in between her chest protector and her uniform, from which she grabs the ball securely

(my play she never secured it and it went all the way to the ground)- so I ruled a Foul ball as it was touched in foul territory.

Now that I've seen all the comments on this, I will say I did not call obstruction on this play. The reason I did not is simple. We have to umpire to the level of the players were are umpiring. In this game I think I could have called obstruction on about half the plays. Instead of call obstruction, I let the out at third stand. The coach never said a word (again this is WRECK Youth Ball).

If this had been travel ball or HS ball, yes I would have made the call.

I officiated to the level of the players, and with that I also do a lot of informing about the rules as well. I am actually well respected by the parents, most of the coaches, and most importantly my assigner for handling many of these situations as teachable moments (that is my primary profession after all).

I have had one coach complain about my reminding the players / teaching them the rules this year. I completely understand where she is coming from as she spent about 10 years as a JV and Varsity HC at a local HS. She, unlike the majority of the coach, knows many of the rules (she was wrong wanting an obstruction that game though, her player moved to get out of the way of a infielder attempting to make an initial play on a batter ball (again, it is WRECK Ball).

If I called everything that could be called, we might get one inning in, instead of 4 or 5 in a 2 hour time limit. Another example from the same games were illegal pitches. We have a local rule that says we are not to call illegally pitches at this level, but inform the players and coach. I had some major crow hops, and the separate and bring the hands together 3 or 4 times pitches in that game. When talking to the coach he admitted he really doesn't know the rules on fastpitch pitching, so it's hard for him to teach them.

[Altor]

See, this is where we differ. Call the obstruction. Call it early. Call it often. Call it when the runner is going to reach safely anyways. If they learn in 8U that they can't stand in the base paths, then we don't have to deal with it at 14U. After a couple obstruction calls, the coaches will tell their players not to stand there. It won't take that much away from your 2 hour time limit.