Are you kidding me?

[Reffing Rev.]

So to be an ASA umpire you have to attend an annual clinic.

In 3 days I've had
1. Umpire tells me the IF rule is in effect anytime there is a force at 2nd with less than 2 outs.
2. Umpire calls a runner out for a look back rule violation because she stopped and immediately (he admitted her move was immediate) advanced.
3. Umpire rule a batter out for "throwing" (carelessly discarding) the bat. (No play to be made by the catcher.)

I've said when my daughters our done needing my coaching services I'll go back to umpiring, but if I have to pay to attend the clinic producing these umpires, and then work with these umpires, maybe I'd be better off just beating my head with the "perfectly legal" dented bat in last night's game.

[Andy]

This is one of my biggest irritations....

You have the umpires that are serious about their craft and want to learn and continue to improve...then you have the umpires that are there to collect a check for a part time job.

Yes...it may be a requirement in your area to attend a clinic, but when push comes to shove and games and leagues need umpires, the assignor may overlook clinic attendance in order to get games covered.

Each one of the things you listed below is a rule misinterpretation (absent local league or tournament rules stating otherwise) and is subject to protest. I also realize that a protest may not be available to you based on the context of this particular game, but if it is, use it...maybe these umpires will actually learn something even if they don't want to.

[Rich]

I'm coaching a "travel" 10U team this summer.

We pay the same fees as 12U, 14U, 16U....we get the worst fields, worst umpires, worst time slots.

It's tiring getting umpires who wouldn't know a rule book if someone handed it to them. In just 2 months, I've seen and heard it all.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm coaching a "travel" 10U team this summer.

We pay the same fees as 12U, 14U, 16U....we get the worst fields, worst umpires, worst time slots.

It's tiring getting umpires who wouldn't know a rule book if someone handed it to them. In just 2 months, I've seen and heard it all.

I just finished a weekend with several 10&U games, good fields, well managed, all time slots, some really good partners.
Often have 10&U on same fields with same umpires (except the bigger egos and sometimes less mobile) as other ages; just depends on the tournament.
IOW, generally treated the same as other ages.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

So to be an ASA umpire you have to attend an annual clinic.

In 3 days I've had
1. Umpire tells me the IF rule is in effect anytime there is a force at 2nd with less than 2 outs.

Is this some sort of local rule in places, or is it merely a rule myth?


A few years ago, some colleagues and classmates played in our city's co-ed slow pitch league and I'd keep score for them. For our season opener one particular year, the exact same thing happened. In our half of the first inning, our lead-off runner got a single and the next batter hit an infield popup. Everyone on our team was when the umpire called an infield fly. When asked, he claimed it was a rule change. He also claimed that on a walk to a male, all runners advancing two bases didn't have to touch the first base as a speed-up rule. That wasn't one of our local rules but nobody questioned it.

The next week, our team played at a different field. I got there early and noticed we would have the league's head umpire calling our game. After exchanging hellos, I casually asked him about the infield fly play. He assured me there was no such rule and he'd talk to the umpire. Whatever he said must have sunken in because we had the original umpire again later that summer and he didn't make any more unusual calls.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

So to be an ASA umpire you have to attend an annual clinic.

In 3 days I've had
1. Umpire tells me the IF rule is in effect anytime there is a force at 2nd with less than 2 outs.

No, that would be a force @ 3rd base

2. Umpire calls a runner out for a look back rule violation because she stopped and immediately (he admitted her move was immediate) advanced.

No, that wouldn't be correct.

3. Umpire rule a batter out for "throwing" (carelessly discarding) the bat. (No play to be made by the catcher.)

0 for 3

I've said when my daughters our done needing my coaching services I'll go back to umpiring, but if I have to pay to attend the clinic producing these umpires, and then work with these umpires, maybe I'd be better off just beating my head with the "perfectly legal" dented bat in last night's game.

Well, since you cannot have a "perfectly legal" dented bat in ASA.........

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm coaching a "travel" 10U team this summer.

We pay the same fees as 12U, 14U, 16U....we get the worst fields, worst umpires, worst time slots.

It's tiring getting umpires who wouldn't know a rule book if someone handed it to them. In just 2 months, I've seen and heard it all.

I never did that. If something is going to go sideways or get goofy, it is going to be at the 10U level. For that reason, I always preferred the better umpires who are going to have enough sense on how to handle any issues with the players and coaches.

I used to have people who thought they were too good for 10U, but I'm not aware of anyone I sent away to a FP national that did not work the 10U level. To me, that is a test of an umpire. Hell, 18U is easy ball to work compared to 10U & 12U.

IMO, anyone who "buries" inexperienced or weak umpire on a lower level game isn't doing the teams or the umpire any favors.

And before anyone says it, yes it is not a bad place to train umpires, but not by fire. You need a top level umpire to work with anyone you are attempting to train in a live game.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I never did that. If something is going to go sideways or get goofy, it is going to be at the 10U level. For that reason, I always preferred the better umpires who are going to have enough sense on how to handle any issues with the players and coaches.

I used to have people who thought they were too good for 10U, but I'm not aware of anyone I sent away to a FP national that did not work the 10U level. To me, that is a test of an umpire. Hell, 18U is easy ball to work compared to 10U & 12U.

IMO, anyone who "buries" inexperienced or weak umpire on a lower level game isn't doing the teams or the umpire an favors.

And before anyone says it, yes it is not a bad place to train umpires, but not by fire. You need a top level umpire to work with anyone you are attempting to train in a live game.

Irish:

I couldn't agree with you more. During my 34 years as a women's college basketball official I had many partners ask why I was still officiating JrHS basketball. I told him that it was paid practice and because I could see the same goofy think at least five times a year at the level which I might only see one every five years at the college level, meaning when I saw it in a college game I was not going to be surprised.

MTD, Sr.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

So to be an ASA umpire you have to attend an annual clinic.

I'm not sure if you have an ax to grind with ASA, but what you describe is not unique to the ASA or any other organization. ASA national, if that is what you are trying to implicate, is only in charge of national tournaments. If what you describe happened at a ASA/USA national, then by all means, show disdain.

What you failed to mention if this was a state/metro tournament, an invitational tournament, or local league games. My ASA association does require that you attend a state approved clinic to umpire in state/metro tournaments only. I'm the UIC for a state tournament this weekend, and I'm only using umpires who attended a clinic. And while attendance at the clinic does not make one a good umpire, that's why there is a protest procedure, and why some work on Sunday and some don't. That's how I get paid as a UIC. By all means, protest if you are a state tournament. I'll encouraged coaches to do that when I am a working umpire.

For invitational tournaments or local leagues, a clinic is not required. We will be having an invitation in 3 weeks, and there will be umpires working that tournament that did not attend a state clinic. And there are some umpires who only work in the local leagues.

Some thing tells me this was a local league, considering you are playing on a Thursday night. If your league as a protocol, please let the umpiring chapter know.

Andy replied best as a general reply. My point is that it isn't "ASA" - look at the people involved, not the organization. All organizations have their good umpires and bad umpires.

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm coaching a "travel" 10U team this summer.

We pay the same fees as 12U, 14U, 16U....we get the worst fields, worst umpires, worst time slots.

It's tiring getting umpires who wouldn't know a rule book if someone handed it to them. In just 2 months, I've seen and heard it all.

You have your choice of which tournaments to play and which tournaments not to play. My experience is that if you play in multiple age groups in the same tournament, 10U will get the worst of everything. And as I said above, invitationals will get lower quality than if you are in a "state" tournament.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

I'm not sure if you have an ax to grind with ASA, but what you describe is not unique to the ASA or any other organization. ASA national, if that is what you are trying to implicate, is only in charge of national tournaments. If what you describe happened at a ASA/USA national, then by all means, show disdain.

What you failed to mention if this was a state/metro tournament, an invitational tournament, or local league games. My ASA association does require that you attend a state approved clinic to umpire in state/metro tournaments only. I'm the UIC for a state tournament this weekend, and I'm only using umpires who attended a clinic. And while attendance at the clinic does not make one a good umpire, that's why there is a protest procedure, and why some work on Sunday and some don't. That's how I get paid as a UIC. By all means, protest if you are a state tournament. I'll encouraged coaches to do that when I am a working umpire.

For invitational tournaments or local leagues, a clinic is not required. We will be having an invitation in 3 weeks, and there will be umpires working that tournament that did not attend a state clinic. And there are some umpires who only work in the local leagues.

Some thing tells me this was a local league, considering you are playing on a Thursday night. If your league as a protocol, please let the umpiring chapter know.

Andy replied best as a general reply. My point is that it isn't "ASA" - look at the people involved, not the organization. All organizations have their good umpires and bad umpires.



You have your choice of which tournaments to play and which tournaments not to play. My experience is that if you play in multiple age groups in the same tournament, 10U will get the worst of everything. And as I said above, invitationals will get lower quality than if you are in a "state" tournament.

The local league I umpire does require you to attend either the district or state clinic. The good news is our staff does a good job of providing correct information, but it all depends on who is running the clinic.