Batting out of order
 

R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. Wrong batter hits a single. R1 scores, R2 on 2nd, BR on 1st. Before next pitch, it's discovered that BR is wrong.

7.2.D.2b EFFECT (a) The player who should have batted is out. (Got it!)
7.2.D.2b EFFECT (b) Any advance of runners and any run scored shall be nullified. All outs made stand. (If everything is nullified, what happens to R1, R2, and the wrong BR? Is the entire play cancelled, everyone goes back to their original base, the right batter is out, and the next batter bats?)

The "advance" is nullified.

Runners go back.

Not everything is nullified. As noted, if there were any outs executed during the play, other than the improper batter, those outs remain in the book

R1 & R2 return to TOP bases. The wrong batter at bat is negated (never happened); then as you said "the right batter is out, and the next batter bats". Next batter being the one who would follow the missed batter.

If memory serves me, Fed would not count the improper batters out(if she did indeed get an out). There's a casebook play but I don't have that book in front of me.

All rule sets are now the same on this, all outs made stand except any outs made on the improper batter.

NFHS and ASA now are the same on this. NCAA is different, as the only out is the batter who should have batted (outs on the play are nullified).

Rule 11.10

One more rule where NCAA has moved further and further away from every other softball rule set. All kinds of instances where it would be a disadvantage for the defense to appeal a batting out of order. Incorrect batter hits into a double play not involving the batter. If defense appeals the batting out of order, instead of 2 outs and 2 less base runners they only get 1 out and put 2 runners back on base.

That rule actually makes it an enticing proposition for the offense to purposely bat out of order because there is no real penalty for it other than just a single out. The defensive coach would be forced to choose between taking just the single out and correcting the batting order, or, not appealing and allowing the offense to reset the batting order.

You are correct in your analysis. Hitting into a double play does give the defense a choice.

I had a coach tell me this year that she will purposely bat out of order a few times a year. I'm not sure if she was joking, but she did seem like she was serious.

Like anything else in NCAA, it will be changed when someone with a little stroke is disadvantaged.

IMO, ASA had it right and screwed it up. The BOO should, without question, carry a penalty.

In addition, if the defense retires anyone, including the wrong batter, those are outs earned and should not be negated to the advantage of the offending team.

You know, for an organization who for more than a half a century was the leader in the game of softball worldwide, they sure have been doing a lot of following in the last decade or so.

I agree, the defense earned every out they made on the field and then there was an additional penalty for the batting out of order. The NCAA rule is really no penalty at all, why not skip over your worst batter and try to reset the batting order. Worst case the it is just a single out which more than likely would have happened anyway since it was their worst batter they are attempting to skip over in the first place.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread
 

Clarification. ASA 10U

No outs
Angie is on 3rd
Betty is on 1st
Claire is due up but Dianne bats instead.
Dianne strikes out.

Coach appeals BOO

Claire is out
Dianne is up.
1 out, correct?
They don't get both outs correct?

I had to protest a game tonight to get this straight, and I think we finally did.

You are correct, sir!

ASA changed their rule (2 years ago?) to negate the improper batter's at-bat, aligning themselves with other organizations. Prior to that, they would have enforced the out made by the improper batter.

Not anymore!

Honestly, the NCAA version makes the most sense...

Either you take the play, or you take the penalty.

Don't see how the NCAA rule makes any sense at all. There is essentially no penalty so it just invites the coach purposely bat out of order. Makes it way too easy to purposely reeset the batting order.

There's ZERO benefit from batting out of order on purpose. You either do something that benefits the other team, or you get your at bat nullified and add an out.

Thank you all! Had this in a game yesterday, FLEX batting for #7 slot even though DP was in #2 slot.
Yes, illegal sub, but was it really BOO ?

Not BOO. Covered under 4-3-I, with penalty listed under 4-6-F-2.

Case play a few years ago about Flex batting after #9 batter. If the DP is batting in first batting position, it would be unreported, else is would be illegal player.

Good, thanks. Reporting is required, I know. Discussion yesterday if reporting of DP playing defense for other than FLEX is required. I think it is.

To which I say: what is the penalty?

4-3-e says the DP may play defense, and that person has not left the game.

The definition of substitute is " . . left the game"

4-6-a is about reporting substitutions.

Doesn't need to be reported because this isn't a substitution.
Additionally,
4-1-a does say that " . . The line up shall contain . . . defensive positions . . "; however there is allowance to correct (without penalty) the other aspects of the line up card, such as name, number, and the list of substitutes.

Ergo,: what is the penalty?

I will only mark it down (ASA/NFHS) if the DP is catching or pitching, because this now is part of CR's. And in discussion this weekend (training a new umpire with the line up card), there isn't a name for the person only hitting and not the DP (ASA/NFHS). The infamous "TDP" was said, to which I immediately squashed, because the hitting only person could be confused as the DP and the flex could be used offensively for the wrong person.

NCAA is a must report, because there is a penalty for having an inaccurate line up card (including defensive positions). Plus, NCAA now has the OP (offensive player).

Thanks again, I will retrain my lineup card brain.
BTW, I use BP (bench player) when I note a non-DP batting only player, open to anything better.
Agree, it only matters for CR.

The issue arose because a coach took the F5 out of the game, moved F7 to F5, F4 to F7; had not used a sub, but still had an F4. Took about 6 - 7 questions and 5 minutes before he said the DP had already been in the game as F4 and the new F4 was the previous "BP". Generally confused coach, so that's why I gave it so much attention. :rolleyes:

If you feel the need to give it a name, while BP is probably more accurate, I would suggest you use a name that someone else calls it.

NCAA calls that player now not playing defense because the DP is playing it for her the "OP" (offensive player), ISF calls it "OFFO" (offensive only, the counterpart to DEFO).

Both good. More likely to match up with NCAA umps than ISF, so OP it is.

How did this happen?

Searched this for a specific point, reposting to review again, lots of views. :cool: