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-   -   Offense appeals checked swing (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/101334-offense-appeals-checked-swing.html)

chapmaja Sun May 08, 2016 09:56pm

Offense appeals checked swing
 
Why is it that the offense can't appeal a ruling that the batter went too far on a checked swing. We allow the defense to appeal, but not the offense. The reason I ask is I had a situation a couple weeks ago where the batter very clearly checked her swing well before offering, but the plate umpire called her for a swinging strike. The offense wanted to appeal, but we can't accept that appeal (not that this umpire would anyway, even if it was allowed). I would have said no swing, had they been able to appeal.

This umpire was one of those I know everything types. He almost tossed one coach for wanting to come ask me about a call I made on the bases where there was a legit reason the coach would have thought the play could be called differently, based on the coaches angle of the play.

AtlUmpSteve Sun May 08, 2016 10:18pm

If you want equity, that's a legal position. Under softball (and, in fact, baseball) rules, it is an appeal that no swing was a swing. The opposite isn't an appeal, it is challenging judgement.

Why so? Because an umpire shouldn't guess a swing, he is tracking the pitch, and will only call an obvious swing; we have a base umpire that can provide help we missed a swing. Since he only called the obvious swing, no reason to allow an appeal of that; since he left the questionable ones for appeal, that is why this is the ONLY appeal allowed on balls and strikes judgement.

Pretty sure your partners have questioned your judgment, too; don't think you have the right to overturn their calls.

Scooby Mon May 09, 2016 12:00am

And the offense can ask for and on an appeal a checked swing. Sit. 0-2 count Plate umpire calls a ball on and the ball gets by the catcher and the batter runs to 1st.

IRISHMAFIA Mon May 09, 2016 07:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooby (Post 987311)
And the offense can ask for and on an appeal a checked swing. Sit. 0-2 count Plate umpire calls a ball on and the ball gets by the catcher and the batter runs to 1st.

No, the offense cannot ask the umpire to get help on a check swing. As noted above, the umpire doesn't call a swing unless s/he sees a swing.

jmkupka Tue May 10, 2016 09:41am

If in that case, OC yells "ask for help", and F2 instinctively turns and asks, "did she go?", I guess I can to to my BU...

Sounds like DMC to me.

CecilOne Tue May 10, 2016 10:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmkupka (Post 987376)
If in that case, OC yells "ask for help", and F2 instinctively turns and asks, "did she go?", I guess I can to to my BU...

Sounds like DMC to me.

Say "no, she is still here". ;)

Besides, the BU will look silly in a tutu. :p :)

youngump Tue May 10, 2016 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 987315)
No, the offense cannot ask the umpire to get help on a check swing. As noted above, the umpire doesn't call a swing unless s/he sees a swing.

Why not? If I don't see a swing and the batter gets to first, I've always assumed I could fix that by asking the BU.

CecilOne Tue May 10, 2016 12:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 987382)
Why not? If I don't see a swing and the batter gets to first, I've always assumed I could fix that by asking the BU.

If you "don't see a swing" and did not call it a swing, then a BU can help.

"No, the offense cannot ask the umpire to get help on a check swing. As noted above, the umpire doesn't call a swing unless s/he sees a swing."
is about when it is called a swing by the PU.

youngump Tue May 10, 2016 02:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 987383)
If you "don't see a swing" and did not call it a swing, then a BU can help.

"No, the offense cannot ask the umpire to get help on a check swing. As noted above, the umpire doesn't call a swing unless s/he sees a swing."
is about when it is called a swing by the PU.

That's my take as well. But notices that Irish was replying to a comment that also agreed with us when he said what he said.

IRISHMAFIA Tue May 10, 2016 02:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 987382)
Why not? If I don't see a swing and the batter gets to first, I've always assumed I could fix that by asking the BU.

What are you fixing? Why would the offense ask the PU to go for help on a "ball" call?

If an umpire calls the pitch a strike, s/he did so for one of two reasons, s/he saw the batter attempt to hit the pitch or the pitch passed through the strike zone.

By calling the pitch a strike on the swing, it isn't a guess, the umpire must judge that the batter attempted to hit a pitch.

Big Slick Tue May 10, 2016 03:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 987385)
What are you fixing? Why would the offense ask the PU to go for help on a "ball" call?

It was mentioned in reply #3. KR told of this a few years ago, at a Central Atlantic Clinic (I believe 2005 or 2006). This exact play happened at MMFP, with the added info of the pitch going into the dugout. PU called a "ball" (no swing), but the offense wanted to appeal the swing because BR would be awarded first base (dropped 3K).

If memory serves me correct, it was brought up as "one of those things we don't have a ruling."

IRISHMAFIA Tue May 10, 2016 10:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slick (Post 987386)
It was mentioned in reply #3. KR told of this a few years ago, at a Central Atlantic Clinic (I believe 2005 or 2006). This exact play happened at MMFP, with the added info of the pitch going into the dugout. PU called a "ball" (no swing), but the offense wanted to appeal the swing because BR would be awarded first base (dropped 3K).

If memory serves me correct, it was brought up as "one of those things we don't have a ruling."

Well, if that were the case, I was there, but don't remember that one. OTOH, do you remember this one that occurred at the same clinic? A scenario of a pop-up on the 1st base line. P was moving to make the catch and checked up because the BR cut him off. Ball landed fair and then rolled foul. Ruling? Forget the INT, it is easier to just rule it a foul ball. :o

Yeah, all my guys looked at each other and just shook our head :)

JDM Wed May 11, 2016 10:23am

?
 
Can interference be called on a foul ball?

Big Slick Wed May 11, 2016 11:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDM (Post 987402)
Can interference be called on a foul ball?

No, because once a ball is foul, the ball is also dead. BUT, a fly ball has no status until caught or touched, and that is the crux of Mike's play.

As described, the ball rolling into foul territory does not exclude the call of interference. The interference happened on a fly ball, preventing the ball from being caught. Once interference happens, nothing else can happen.

JDM Wed May 11, 2016 11:34am

If 2 runners are advancing when interference is called on one of them, what happens to the other runner who was advancing?


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