Check Swing on Ball 4

[Scooby]

R1 on 1st. No outs. Full count. The batter checks her swing and the plate umpire calls ball 4.
Sit. 1. There is an immediate appeal to the base umpire and who calls a strike and the catcher throws that ball to 2nd base and tags R1 before she reaches 2nd.
Sit. 2. An appeal is made after the runner has advanced to 2nd.

Do we allow the out or the runners advance to stand or do we put her back on 1st?
Please let me know if there is a difference between NCAA, ASA and NHSF.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Scooby

R1 on 1st. No outs. Full count. The batter checks her swing and the plate umpire calls ball 4.
Sit. 1. There is an immediate appeal to the base umpire and who calls a strike and the catcher throws that ball to 2nd base and tags R1 before she reaches 2nd.
Sit. 2. An appeal is made after the runner has advanced to 2nd.

Do we allow the out or the runners advance to stand or do we put her back on 1st?
Please let me know if there is a difference between NCAA, ASA and NHSF.

1. umpire jeopardy
2. stolen base

[MountieSB]

What is umpire jeopardy and how does it apply to previous post about it?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MountieSB

What is umpire jeopardy and how does it apply to previous post about it?

The umpire's delay in the application of the correct ruling placed the runner in jeopardy through no fault of their own.

Return R1 to 1st base.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

1. umpire jeopardy
2. stolen base

Not sure how you don't get umpire jeopardy on #2. In my mind, if the girl is stealing, let the steal play out (out or safe based on what happens). If she's reacting to a Ball 4 call she's going back when we bring the BR back.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by youngump

Not sure how you don't get umpire jeopardy on #2. In my mind, if the girl is stealing, let the steal play out (out or safe based on what happens). If she's reacting to a Ball 4 call she's going back when we bring the BR back.

If "tags R1 before she reaches 2nd" was in sit 2, but there was no ruling that affected her on the clean steal ("An appeal is made after the runner has advanced to 2nd.").

Even if the ruling was before R1 reached 2nd, if no tag out, why not a successful steal?

Ok, with a tag out in sit 2, different story.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Even if the ruling was before R1 reached 2nd, if no tag out, why not a successful steal?

Did the defense hear "Ball 4" and not make a play on the runner? If they stopped playing, should you account for that as well?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

If "tags R1 before she reaches 2nd" was in sit 2, but there was no ruling that affected her on the clean steal ("An appeal is made after the runner has advanced to 2nd.").

Even if the ruling was before R1 reached 2nd, if no tag out, why not a successful steal?

Ok, with a tag out in sit 2, different story.

I'm not sure if we're imagining the same thing. I have a ball that comes in with a checked swing. Ball. BR starts down to first. Coach wakes up the runner on 1st and sends her to second. Pitcher holds the ball while the coach convinces the catcher to get the umpire to check with his partner. In that situation, I'm saying bring her back to 1st. She only advanced because of the late appeal. (Or what if she committed a LBR violation since there was no BR.) I'm positing that the ruling for a runner who advances because of an award that is rescinded has to return.

[Rich Ives]

Baseball makes it easy:

Baserunners must be alert to the possibility that the base umpire on appeal from the plate umpire may reverse the call of a ball to the call of a strike, in which event the runner is in jeopardy of being out by the catcher’s throw.

[charliej47]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Baseball makes it easy:

Baserunners must be alert to the possibility that the base umpire on appeal from the plate umpire may reverse the call of a ball to the call of a strike, in which event the runner is in jeopardy of being out by the catcher’s throw.

I believe this was discussed a couple of years ago in baseball (NFHS) where the umpire will correct any action that puts a player in jeopardy.

Please look at the 2015 Case book 10.2.2 the umpire will correct the error. I think MLB calls it an out.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Scooby

R1 on 1st. No outs. Full count. The batter checks her swing and the plate umpire calls ball 4.
Sit. 1. There is an immediate appeal to the base umpire and who calls a strike and the catcher throws that ball to 2nd base and tags R1 before she reaches 2nd.
Sit. 2. An appeal is made after the runner has advanced to 2nd.

Do we allow the out or the runners advance to stand or do we put her back on 1st?
Please let me know if there is a difference between NCAA, ASA and NHSF.

In my opinion there are a lot of factors in play in these situations.

Was R1 attempting to steal on the pitch? If the answer to that is yes, the next question is did she visibly alter her steal attempt when the pitch was called ball 4? If she was attempting to steal and we have no indication she was impacted by the ball 4 call, I have an out by the defense. (Which is also a tough play to get all aspects of in with the appeal). If R1 was attempting to steal, but slowed up when she heard ball 4, and was then tagged out, I am ruling umpire jeopardy and she is back on first because her actions were impacted by the reversed call upon appeal.

With situation 2, if she advanced only as a result of being awarded the base due to the original ball 4 call, I am ruling umpire jeopardy and she goes back. If she was going on the play and the defense made no indication of an attempt to get her, then I am ruling a stolen base.

This like many other situations, are HTBT plays. We need to see everything that happens to actually make a determination based on all the facts of the play.