Illeal Pitch

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

That means it is illegal immediately, not that it is Immediately DB.
The NFHS penalties and ASA effects cover that.

Not trying to be hard-headed, but NFHS Rule 5-1-1 starts out by saying, "Ball becomes dead immediately when..."

And then 5-1-1p says, "an illegal pitch occurs, but no pitch is delivered to the batter." So waiting God only knows how long between the illegal pitch infraction and then the moment the pitcher decides not to deliver the pitch is counter-intuitive to the rule stating it's an immediate dead ball.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Not trying to be hard-headed, but NFHS Rule 5-1-1 starts out by saying, "Ball becomes dead immediately when..."

And then 5-1-1p says, "an illegal pitch occurs, but no pitch is delivered to the batter." So waiting God only knows how long between the illegal pitch infraction and then the moment the pitcher decides not to deliver the pitch is counter-intuitive to the rule stating it's an immediate dead ball.

Judgment on whether it is or will be thrown, the last $2 of your fee.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Not trying to be hard-headed, but NFHS Rule 5-1-1 starts out by saying, "Ball becomes dead immediately when..."

And then 5-1-1p says, "an illegal pitch occurs, but no pitch is delivered to the batter." So waiting God only knows how long between the illegal pitch infraction and then the moment the pitcher decides not to deliver the pitch is counter-intuitive to the rule stating it's an immediate dead ball.

And 5-1-2 starts out by saying, "It is a delayed dead ball when ....."

And then 5-1-2a says "an illegal pitch is delivered".

So who decides if a pitch will be delivered? I would think that would be the pitcher, not the umpire. If she doesn't choose to deliver a pitch, she can do what pitchers do to stop the pitching sequence; step off. But if her hands are together and she stays on the pitching plate, I submit that we wait until she either pitches or disengages.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

So who decides if a pitch will be delivered? I would think that would be the pitcher, not the umpire. If she doesn't choose to deliver a pitch, she can do what pitchers do to stop the pitching sequence; step off. But if her hands are together and she stays on the pitching plate, I submit that we wait until she either pitches or disengages.

Within the allowed time limit?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Within the allowed time limit?

Yes; but, considering that the only reason to allow her to continue is to allow added benefit to the offended party (offense), I wouldn't be overly quick to call the timing violation (20 seconds) or second form of illegal pitch (more than 10 seconds with hands together) on top of the initial illegal pitch to kill it. But I would wait that long if the pitcher stayed on the plate with hands together.

[IRISHMAFIA]

2013 Case Play 6.1-3
May F1 take the pitching position with the hands already together?
RULING: No, this is illegal. F1's hands must be apart when stepping onto the pitcher's place and while taking the signal. An illegal pitch should be called as soon as the violation occurs. (6-1A)

To me, and the discussions I've had in the past with others, the violation should be called and applied immediately.

Personally, I'm not a fan of this rule as long as they separate THAN simulate taking the signal prior to bringing them back together. I've seen this called when a pitcher is simply stepping onto the PP with the hands together and immediately drop their arms to the side when looking up to take the signal. But it is what it is.