Here is the situation, you are have the plate on a 2 person womens fast pitch game. This play happened in a fall college game, but it could happen with any age group in any federation.

Nobody is on base. There is a routine bunt that the 3rd baseperson fields cleanly and fires to 1st only no one is covering. You notice that your parter(Kellerumps were split up so it's not us) is caught up in "No Mans Land" as the ball bounces into right field and the BR breaks for 2nd.

What do you do?????

First, one question. Where is No Man's Land? Could I assume that the BU was in no position to make a call at 2B?

If this is the case, as the PU, I would be about a third of the way down the first base line anyway watching for a running lane violation. After that, I hopefully would notice that my partner was in a tough predicament. Therefore, I would take a quick left and get as close to 2B as I can but leave myself some room to maneuver to 3B if needed. This would be just as if my partner went out to cover a fly ball. The infield would be mine.

If I don't notice, then I would just pray that the BR gets to 2B without incident.

This situation or something similar would have to be discussed in pregame.

I agree with John, since PU already headed slightly in that
area, go and stay with the R. BU should head for HP in the
event there are other overthrows. Had this happend in the
18U Nationals [final two undefeated teams] game. I was PU,
and went on to 2B, where R beat the throw. Partner had
advanced towards HP. I thought it was good coverage since
this was only R'r and had nothing to worry about at HP.

glen

I pretty much agree with what John & Glen have already said. It happens more frequently that one might think that BU will get caught in foul on an overthrow at 1b - on a bunt or other play by F4 or F9. I go over it in our pre-game get together. PU should holler "I've got second & third", allowing BU to move toward Home.

Steve M

Don't know if it is proper or not, but my "normal" partner and I do this all the time. Particularly on a grounder to deep F3 or similar when BU has to go into foul territory. We have the base umpire make the call at first and if there is an overthrow or such, the PU goes to second and the BU watches to insure the ball does not go into DBT. He will then head for home if the ladies start "throwing the ball around" and making other errors.

FYI, we also "go out" much more than others. It takes extra hussle, but not only do I think it gives better coverage, it makes us keep our heads in the game.

I pretty much agree with what has already been said.

Pretty much what the other have said BUT I would ask my partner "How the hell he got hung up on a bunt to 3rd". Now I can see and have had this happen on a bunt or slap situation down 1st base line and the BU stays in foul territory to make the call BUT down 1st base line he should of been in fair territory and able to take the runner to 2nd though he might get caught up where he has to stay outside instead of moving in to where I will take the runner to 3rd of there is a play.....


JMO's

Don

I agree with the responses on how this play should be covered, PU takes the BR to second, and third, if necessary, and BU rotates to home.

My question is how often do you all have BU partners that want to make this or the ground ball to right field call from foul ground?

My experience is that it does not happen often, but each time that I have seen it, I thought that the BU could have hustled more and gotten inside the diamond to make the call at first and be in position to take the runner around, if necessary. I realize that there will be times that the BU cannot get inside, but these should be very rare.

Just curious.

Maybe they should adopt ASA's new BU positioning with no runners on base in slow pitch. That would solve the problem.



[Edited by IRISHMAFIA on Sep 15th, 2003 at 04:28 PM]

Is the new positioning on the right hip of F4, not literally? I thought I heard that somewhere.

In OKC, Henry stated off F4's right shoulder would be a starting point. This may work at the higher levels, but not at the lower or rec levels.

This year we suggested umpires start off the left shoulder with no runners on base. This helps to eliminate F4 from getting in your way and gives the umpire an unobstructed view of a play at 1B. From this position, there were no reported problems with umpires getting trapped outside or getting blocked out on a play.

Was that supposed to be for FP, too?

I wondered that also, but I figured you D1 guys do things differently.

Mike,
I was under the impression that was strictly a SP mechanic. I have a couple of let's say "very experienced" guys in my high school chapter that should probably use this mechanic - since neither wants to retire and they still get games from the assignors.

Steve M

It is. I failed to note SP in my post. I'll edit it.

However, I cannot figure out why it couldn't apply to FP. Can you?

I called three FP games with Billy P this year, 2 of them with him on the bases. He used this mechanic both times he had the bases. He speaks highly of it.

Mike,
Yes, that could apply to FP at times. Especially with the guys I mentioned earlier OR in tournaments when working your 5th game of the day. The biggest objection would probably be over the appearance of "not being where BU is expected to be".

Steve M

Well I did what you all mentioned. As soon as I read the play, and noticed that my partner was in no-mans-land, I shot up the middle yelling...."I've got 2 and 3...You go home!". Everything was covered.

Both coaches and my assigner appreciated my hustle.

What about having a good angle for crow-hops, etc?

I bet your partner appreciated it as well, even if this one didn't want to marry you.

What difference would it make? Nobody ever calls them, anyway!! http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung0...smiley-103.gif

I would think that angle would be more advantageous to see the pitcher sliding the pivot foot forward off the plate, but how do you call that pitch if a runner is on base?

A good point, nonetheless.

My understanding of this mechanic comes from talking with Billy and watching him in action.

Basically, it amounts to the BU starts in the position he would take with one runner on 1st. While you may give up a little in being able to watch the pitcher, you gain a lot in being in position for calls on the bases. No longer are you calling the play from the foul side when there is a batted ball to shallow right, for example.

I have a few two-man games left this season. Maybe I'll actually give it a try. If so, I'll let you know how it worked.

BU and PU should be prepared for sitches like this. My normal partner(s) and I usually discuss this beforehand, and instead of long drawn-out sentences like "I've got 2nd and 3rd, you go home!" (which are likely to distract players), PU just yells "Switch", and BU knows that he/she's got home, and PU has the bases.

A couple of times coaches have commented on how organized we looked in a situation like that.

Like that, but would include my partner's name and a word that doesn't sound like "s*h**. ;)

I've tried using those 1 word phrases this summer and have come to the following conclusion......I don't like them. "Swing", "Tag", "No"...Yadda Yadda Yadda.

The only 1 word phrase we like to use is "Bite"....Instead of "Bite Me!". :)

Hey guys!!! Back in business after two days without power.

Steve, sounds like we work in the same association. We also have a couple "very experienced guys" that would benefit from that position.

Mike, as far as I know, it would work in FP as well as SP.