Out of the Box? Maybe not!

AtlUmpSteve · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 25, 2015, 11:48am

I don't think the rule books are really definitive on this, but I would share some thoughts.

1) It is our responsibility to check the field (and we often don't) to make sure the field is per requirements, as well as safety. Not knowing the box is drawn improperly really isn't an acceptable answer. The fact that he didn't even know the proper dimensions is even more unacceptable; his "measurement" wasn't horrific in my opinion, but his following statement was. I can't say my shoe is exactly 12" long, but I know it isn't 9" or 18".

2) If the box is drawn improperly, you have two realistic options; a) get it redrawn, or b) rub out the inaccurate lines and play just as you will from the second inning on, anyway, using your judgment in the absence of clear lines. But that should have happened before the start of the game. Doing the field inspection (and ending up at a plate meeting), perhaps the base umpire could have noted the inaccurate box? Link, if that was you, your fault as much as his, you are a "crew". (I guess I am assuming 2 man in your area.)

3) This OP may be different only because the ball was batted foul, and there is no real consequence for killing the play with a dead ball, but, if you "undo" the out (and I am leaning to that is the right thing to do), how would you treat a fair batted ball when a) you have killed the play before an out or safe is clear, b) you cannot unring that bell, anymore than you can make an incorrectly called foul ball retroactively fair, c) the batter has completed her at-bat according to the rules, so putting her back in the box with a do-over is not an option?? Seems to me your legitimate options (not to include a "make everyone happy half-ass solution) are to award the batter first base and advance forced runners only if you undo the out call, or maintain the out call.

No matter what, you have put both teams in jeopardy by NOT DOING YOUR JOB to begin with. But, this OP had an easy solution putting no one at a disadvantage; it's a foul ball, play on!!

4) There are times we have to use the lines as drawn; we cannot expect every foul line to be completely accurate, nor have them redrawn every time they are not. And we simply cannot use judgment to overrule the line (unless the ball hits the base or the foul pole). And if the pitcher's circle is off, the lines that everyone can see is the only fair way to judge lookback rule. But, I wouldn't extend the running lane to the batters box if someone drew it that way, any more than I would say there is no running lane if it wasn't drawn. So, we have to know when the line is the only proper way to rule, and when it isn't.

In my opinion, in this case (foul batted ball), the PU should have accepted the additional information (box is wrong) same as "yes, pulled foot", corrected and moved on. Maybe you eat the fair ball, but this was an easy fix.

Dakota · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 25, 2015, 12:00pm

I agree the rule book is not definitive wrt the batter's box, but it is definitive wrt the position of the pitcher's plate and the length of the base lines (both of which should also be checked pre-game, but how often are they?), and the rule book says to make the correction and play on. Presumably, this would apply even if the BR was out by a half a step in a fast pitch game with the bases set for slow pitch which caused the OC to question the base placement.

Rich Ives · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 25, 2015, 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota

I I agree the rule book is not definitive wrt the batter's box,.

It certainly is. It defines the size and positioning. What else is there?

Dakota · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 25, 2015, 02:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It certainly is. It defines the size and positioning. What else is there?

Context is everything.

youngump · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 28, 2015, 03:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

In my opinion, in this case (foul batted ball), the PU should have accepted the additional information (box is wrong) same as "yes, pulled foot", corrected and moved on. Maybe you eat the fair ball, but this was an easy fix.

Can you really say this was a fair or foul ball? The call of dead ball prevented anything else from happening, no? What if it were a dribbler up the first base line moving in and out of foul territory that no one bothered to keep from going fair. It seems like a can of worms to dig through (though I guess it was already open).

AtlUmpSteve · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 28, 2015, 11:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump

Can you really say this was a fair or foul ball? The call of dead ball prevented anything else from happening, no? What if it were a dribbler up the first base line moving in and out of foul territory that no one bothered to keep from going fair. It seems like a can of worms to dig through (though I guess it was already open).

Yes, I say it was foul because Link, the only one that was there on this thread, says it was foul. What basis do you have to dispute that?

youngump · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 29, 2015, 11:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Yes, I say it was foul because Link, the only one that was there on this thread, says it was foul. What basis do you have to dispute that?

If the ball was dead at the moment of contact, then when the ball became dead it was over fair territory. Nothing that happened to it after that matters. I realize it's a fairly easy sell if it was fouled straight off into the fence to say it was going to be foul anyway. But I just don't see how that can be part of how you correct it in general because some foul balls might have ended up fair if played differently.