Fourth Out Appeal
 

Sit.
R3 on 1st 2 outs. B4 with a 0-2 count. R3 steals and is thrown out, B4 checks his/her swing. The catcher requests the plate umpire to go for help on the check swing because they do not want to pitch to B4 the next inning.

I believe that this does not fit into one of the reasons to qualify for a 4th out appeal in ASA. I would be interested in any other codes.

ASA a fourth out appeal may only be made on a runner who has scored, so no this would not be a valid appeal in ASA.

The fourth out appeal rule in NFHS does allow for 4th out appeals on any runner, but it speaks in reference to negating runs. In the situation you have presented it is not to negate a run so not sure that would be a valid 4th out appeal, but I am not sure.

But the strikeout happened before the out at 2B. Shouldn't it count?

Rich:

I was thinking the same thing.

Does that mean great minds think alike, :p.

MTD, Sr.

Was up in the middle of the night when I posted and actually thought about the strike happening before the put out, so technically its really not a 4th out appeal.

We call it an "appeal" to ask about a check swing, but is it really?

This is a BIIIIIG stretch, but could the jeopardy rule apply here?

If the PU goes to the BU for help on the check swing and the BU rules a strike, the strike out should be the third out of the inning and B4s turn at bat is complete.

Would the initial "incorrect" call of a ball on B4 place the defensive team in jeopardy by having to pitch to B4 with no count at the start of the next inning?

Just thinking out loud (figuratively speaking), I can't think of any other way to accept the request for help on the check swing after the third out at second base.

I believe we have the winner right here.

This play is NOT a fourth out appeal; it is, as Altor states, a request for help on a check swing. Appeals are defined in rule book; this isn't one of them.

As a matter of rule, the NCAA mandates that we honor the requestwhen made by the catcher; as a matter of good game management, other mechanics manuals urge you to honor the request unless you judge it to be a mockery.

I cannot understand why we would NOT allow the defense to secure the more favorable out they earned, nor why we would take away the strike out the pitcher earned.

For that matter, I don't understand why ASA (or anyone else) wouldn't allow a beneficial fourth out appeal, whether it negates a run or not. If the defense earned the out, and that team considers it a benefit, why ignore or refuse it?

As has been stated, the OP situation is not an appeal, so the strike out counts (assuming BU says it was a swing).
ASA is worse than that... the runner appealed must have scored!

But, a lot of us have been wondering that for a long time!

It is because players stop playing when the umpire calls the 3rd out.

What happened to R1 and R2 as R3 attempted to steal? Was this a triple steal?

:D

Didn't notice this (and I don't think anybody else did)... but let's suppose it was actually a triple steal and that the runner from third scored before the tag at 2nd. Now the strikeout is taking a run off the board. But let's suppose that the ball was in the dirt and the runner from home was taking off toward first but stopped going to first when the out was called. :eek:

R1 and R2 were out on prior plays given that this play started with 2 outs.

Can anyone give a citation that is supported by the rule book?

asa - rs.1.m