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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 06, 2003, 08:56am
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A player is on a breakaway heading down field when she is caught from behind around the 18 yard line. The defender kicks the ball directly backwords from this point and the goalie runs out and picks it up. The goalie reaches down and picks up the ball within 4 yards of the goal post and the ball wasn't going to go out of bounds. I call indirect free kick.

The insuing kick leads to a goal and the team's coaches that I called against are livid.

My reasoning for the call I made. When their are goal scoring oppurtunities it seems clear to me that rules become stricter. Though the defensive player may not have purposefully played the ball directly to the keeper in my mind that is what happened and took away a clear goal scoring oppurtunity.

After the game I talked to the coaches and they argued because the goalie had to move to the ball (Let say 10 yards) from her orginal position that it should not have been called.

Either way I think one of the teams was going to be mad.
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Old Tue May 06, 2003, 02:52pm
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Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Originally posted by eh812
A player is on a breakaway heading down field when she is caught from behind around the 18 yard line. The defender kicks the ball directly backwords from this point and the goalie runs out and picks it up. The goalie reaches down and picks up the ball within 4 yards of the goal post and the ball wasn't going to go out of bounds. I call indirect free kick.

The insuing kick leads to a goal and the team's coaches that I called against are livid.

My reasoning for the call I made. When their are goal scoring oppurtunities it seems clear to me that rules become stricter. Though the defensive player may not have purposefully played the ball directly to the keeper in my mind that is what happened and took away a clear goal scoring oppurtunity.

After the game I talked to the coaches and they argued because the goalie had to move to the ball (Let say 10 yards) from her orginal position that it should not have been called.

Either way I think one of the teams was going to be mad.

In my humble opinion, you were incorrect to penalize the defending team. The rule applies to a "direct" pass to the goalie from a teammate. The defender in your play was attempting to steal the ball from the attacking player and was successful in causing the attacking player to lose control of the ball. That is all the defender did. The goalie then picked up a lose ball. The defender did not pass the ball to the goalie.
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Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 06, 2003, 03:17pm
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Thanks Mark

Thanks for the the quick reply.

Yes,

I see what you are saying. Since it was a goal scoring oppurtunity for the defender to come from behind and kick the ball away and the goalie to be able to pick it up seemed a bit unfair at the time, but the rules as I read today do use the phrase "direct pass" and this was more of "just so happened."

I am going to ref for the same team again next week.

Do you think apologizing for the call would be approriate or would that undermind my authority on the field?

Thanks again
Erick

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Old Tue May 13, 2003, 09:42pm
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Hi Erick:

It so happens I had exactly the same situation this past season in boys high school soccer. I did not call the keeper for handling a back pass and as you might imagine the attacking team was hot about it.

When faced with these situations I try to remember the intent of the rules to apply their spirit. The whole idea behind stopping the back pass to the keeper was to liven up the game, to encourage attacking play and scoring chances. I well remember my college playing days as a keeper when we would tie up minute after minute kicking it back and throwing it forward to stall a game when nursing a slender lead. So when I saw a not terribly skilled defender desperately kick the ball away at the top of the area I didn't worry about the keeper picking it up before it went out for a corner kick. That play sequence was totally unlike the sequence the new rule was designed to stop.

Malcolm P.
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Old Tue May 13, 2003, 09:50pm
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Hi Erick:

I forgot to mention that when I have changed my mind about a rules interpretation I try to let the coach know about it when talking with him at the next game. That way he will know what to expect from you when he sees the situation come up again. I don't think that undermines your authority. Rather it shows that you understand you are human; that you can have mistaken ideas about rules; and that you are interested in continuously improving your standard of refereeing. You will be held in higher esteem by experienced coaches with mature judgment.

On the other hand I do not discuss my analysis of the facts of play in a previous game-- i.e., was the ball in touch or not, was it a corner or a goal kick, was that handling in the area really deliberate or just inadvertent. To rehash the way you saw a factual situation versus how he saw it just gets you into a lot of 'who shot John' that leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

Malcolm P.
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Old Wed May 14, 2003, 07:20am
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Thanks Malcom

Thanks for the advice Malcom,

I already had the same sort of play happen again and I didn't make the call this time. Of course one of the teams was mad, but at least I know I have the law on my side this time.
As for talking to the coach, I did that last evening. I had the team again and let the coach know that I went back looked at the rules and asked for some help and said something like "I will do better in the future." He seemed to be fine with that.

Erick
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Old Wed May 14, 2003, 04:14pm
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Unless you were absolutely sure the defender intentionally passed the ball back to the keeper, it should have been a "no call". Did the defender definitely look to see where the keeper was before the ball was kicked? Did the defender definitely appear to send it toward the keeper? It's hard to make the call without being there, but I don't imagine the defender, coming in at full speed, from behind or the side, could do much beyond getting the ball away from a fast forward attacker, let alone direct it to the keeper. Besides, sending the ball to the keeper inside the 18 would be a high risk of an "own goal" if the keeper missed it, or bungled it, letting the attacker get in for a good shot.
As one state final level official told me, when in your own doubt on a call, you must be conservative and not give one team a big advantage that might change the outcome of a game. He gave the example of:when in doubt of a goal kick or corner kick, never make it a drop ball, always make it a goal kick. Applying this to your situation, when in doubt, it's a no call.
On talking to coaches, advise given to me was that beyond pregame business, never discuss your decisions with a coach beyond being polite and saying "that's what I saw coach", or if you did make a bad call, tell the coach "I understand your concern and I am going to discuss the situation with my peer officials". After a game always leave the site immediately. Further advise to me was if you make any mistakes, learn from them and become a better "ref", forget the situation, and move on.
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Old Sat May 17, 2003, 03:24pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimP
Unless you were absolutely sure the defender intentionally passed the ball back to the keeper, it should have been a "no call". ... snip ...
I think this is really the point. Part of the rule is intent.

As far as discussing a past call with a coach, I agree with "never discuss your decisions with a coach beyond being polite and saying "that's what I saw coach", or if you did make a bad call, tell the coach "I understand your concern". I would, however, re-explain the play if the coach asks the next time. Either way, expect to hear "Are you going change your mind about that one, too?" on the next call the coach doesn't like. That comment has to be ignored the first time (especially if in jest), warned about the second time, dealt with if it continues, just be sure you read the tone of voice correctly.
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