Proper restart

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by VaWVref

By rule, a restart must be in accordance with the reason for the stoppage.
The scenerio stated in the original post was that the restart was a kickoff (following a goal or the start of a half). Since the restart had not properly taken place, the ball touched (moved forward) by the attacking team encroachment can not occur. The defending could be cautioned for Delaying the Restart, but not the encroachment.

Again, the ball must be put into play with a kick off.

We agree that restarting with a kick-off is proper and that a caution may be given to a defender. It is only the reason for that caution that we debate.

What you wrote above (and I put in red) is not my understanding of how the USSF/FIFA or NFHS rule works, but I'll do some checking with the big boys and report back.

[ref47]

don't have my hs rule book with me, but fifa lotg:

law 8, kick-off, infringements:

if the kicker touches the ball a second time ... .
for any other infringement of the kick-off procedure: the kick-off is retaken

[CecilOne]

The OP asked about NFHS. What is so difficult about the Penalty in Rule 8, IFK at the spot of the foul? Where is the NFHS rule citation that says no penalty for infractions when the ball is not in play?

BTW, the words encroachment and caution do not appear in Rule 8.

[refnrev]

After my original post, and some hours of sleep after 5 high school games on one very very hot day I realized that my partner was in error. You could not have an IFK at the spot the defender ran into the circle as the restart since the ball was never properly put into play. Could you have PI if her kept doing it? Absolutely! But as for the proper restart I was right and partner was well intentioned but in error.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The OP asked about NFHS. What is so difficult about the Penalty in Rule 8, IFK at the spot of the foul?

That penalty listed at the end of Rule 8 (IFK), only applies to violations of Article 4. It would be nice if the NFHS would make that clear by altering the structure of that rule in the book, but one can confirm the proper restart by checking Rule 13. The final sentence of 13-3-2, which is entitled "How Taken" under "Free Kick" (which a kick-off certainly is), states "Failure to kick the ball as specified shall result in a rekick." Please compare that with the very next article (13-3-3) that prohibits a second touch by the kicker and its prescribed penalty of an IFK.
In short, Cecil, what is so difficult about this is the poor structure of Rule 8 leads to people such as yourself misreading the intent of the NFHS rulesmakers.

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Where is the NFHS rule citation that says no penalty for infractions when the ball is not in play?

That is an excellent question to which the answer is more difficult. First, let me state that it isn't that there aren't penalties for infractions committed when the ball is not in play, it is just that free kicks cannot be awarded for those infractions. Players can be disciplined and receive yellow or red cards for any misconduct committed during such time, but once play is stopped, how the game is to be restarted cannot be altered by anything that happens prior to that restart.
The difficulty here stems from the imprecise use of the term "foul" by the NFHS. The NFHS uses this word in a far too vague and general sense. Compare the NFHS definition with the USSF/FIFA definition.

In order to reach to the conclusion that I have stated above, one must combine bits and pieces of numerous NFHS rules and play rulings. That is rather unfortunate.

Originally Posted by CecilOne

BTW, the words encroachment and caution do not appear in Rule 8.

I'm at a loss as to the point which you are trying to make here.
The words "encroachment" and "caution" may not appear in rule 8, but they certainly do appear in other areas of the NFHS rules book, including rule 12.

[Nevadaref]

A good example of someone being penalized while the ball is not in play is when a player interferes with an opponent taking a throw-in. This player will receive a caution for unsporting behavior, but the opponent will not be awarded a free kick. The restart remains a throw-in.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That penalty listed at the end of Rule 8 (IFK), only applies to violations of Article 4. It would be nice if the NFHS would make that clear by altering the structure of that rule in the book, but one can confirm the proper restart by checking Rule 13. The final sentence of 13-3-2, which is entitled "How Taken" under "Free Kick" (which a kick-off certainly is), states "Failure to kick the ball as specified shall result in a rekick." Please compare that with the very next article (13-3-3) that prohibits a second touch by the kicker and its prescribed penalty of an IFK.

If one Article is the intent, it should say so, as in some other rules (e.g., 12, 14). As to 13-3-2, applying an Article which includes "moving in any direction" to a kickoff seems inappropriate. This is especially true when kickoffs are in a separate Rule, like Penalty, Goal, and Corner Kicks are. Each of those have provisions that do not apply to foul-generated kicks in no specific area.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

In short, Cecil, what is so difficult about this is the poor structure of Rule 8 leads to people such as yourself misreading the intent of the NFHS rulesmakers.

Yes, structure is poor in most rule books, and "it would be nice" to have more clarity. We do not have such or any documented "intent of the NFHS rulesmakers" for those of us condescendingly implied as not able to read the rule book. So, we have to apply the rule as consistent with others in structure, which in general have Penalties applying to entire Sections. The other alternative is 5.3.2.g; which I believe yields the same result.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The OP asked about NFHS. What is so difficult about the Penalty in Rule 8, IFK at the spot of the foul? Where is the NFHS rule citation that says no penalty for infractions when the ball is not in play?

BTW, the words encroachment and caution do not appear in Rule 8.

Yes, the OP says no kick ever took place, which means there can not be a "rekick"; but just repositioning of the players.

The point about "encroachment" and "caution" not being in Rule 8 is that they are not legitimate parts of this discussion unless we accept that the definition of encroachment includes occupying the 10 yard buffer prior to the kick; which is listed as a cautionable offense.
The issue is how can an offense occur prior to an action if the action does not occur. IOW, if the kick was taken, the offense is penalized with the ball in play because the defender is apparently still within the 10 yards if he was there prior to the kick.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Yes, the OP says no kick ever took place, which means there can not be a "rekick"; but just repositioning of the players.

The point about "encroachment" and "caution" not being in Rule 8 is that they are not legitimate parts of this discussion unless we accept that the definition of encroachment includes occupying the 10 yard buffer prior to the kick; which is listed as a cautionable offense.
The issue is how can an offense occur prior to an action if the action does not occur. IOW, if the kick was taken, the offense is penalized with the ball in play because the defender is apparently still within the 10 yards if he was there prior to the kick.

Isn't that the very definition of encroachment in the NFHS book per 18-1-1(k)?

"The act, by one or more defenders, of advancing within 10 yards of the ball prior to the taking of a free kick."

If by encroaching the defenders prevent the attacking team from taking the kick, then an offense has occurred. It is at the discretion of the referee as to how to handle it.