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Old Wed Apr 28, 2004, 11:49pm
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Some advice please....

I am catching some heat for ejecting a player who received back to back 3-minute fouls each for unsportsmanlike conduct fouls. As I understand Rule 5-10, "Flagrant misconduct is an expulsion foul". It is my job at the time to determine whether it was flagrant or not. Had it been early in the game, I probably would have let the kid stay and the fouls would have just been part of the five per game he is allowed to accumulate. As it was, there were 7 1/2 minutes left in the game, he had just been given 6 minutes worth of penalties, and I decided not to let him come back in the last 90 seconds of a game that had already been decided, and give him the opportunity to try and finish what he started before.

Does anyone here see a problem with ejecting the player in that situation?
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Old Thu Apr 29, 2004, 12:23am
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This is for NCAA rules correct? Saying that because rules references would make more sense and that NFHS has a specific rule about this. You are right this is you judgment and I would have had no problem with ejecting some one who received a second USC after an initial 3 minute USC. With that being said in NCAA you can still give a player say 5 1-minute penalties and just DQ him from the contest if you want to do that (less if has built up a number of personal fouls to begin with).
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Old Thu Apr 29, 2004, 09:02am
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What exactly did he do to deserve back to back 3 minute penalties?
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Old Thu Apr 29, 2004, 11:37am
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I have no problem kicking the player out for two usc's. I think the heat you are getting comes from other peoples' opinions as to what conduct takes the penalty out of an unnecessary roughness or any other personal foul and into a usc. For example, I call a retaliatory slash a usc if the players are not involved in the action. In a recent-high school game, I had a kid wind up and slash a player's shin after he had been legally clobbered by that player. The players were away from the ball and he did it in anger. The player later got another usc for arguing and cursing, triggering an automatice ejection. After the game the assistant coach was ranting that the slash should have been an unnecessary roughness, not a usc. Under our local bylaws, the player had to sit out his next game.

Basically, I think the coaches dont want to lose players for any part of the game, and are going to give you grief. But I cant let a kid, and the rest of the players on both teams, see that slashing, spearing etc. another player when they are not involved in the action is just like a reular personal foul. They may think a one-minute releasable foul is worth the price.
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Old Thu Apr 29, 2004, 01:09pm
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Yes, NCAA.

Both USC's in this case were for arguing the call, and the funny thing is, the original PF call was against another player. The first one was called by the other official. The kid kept mouthing as he came toward me while I was relaying the information to the bench. I warned him he better "close it" or I'd hit him with another 3 minutes. It got worse! So I tagged him with another 3 minutes AND ejected him.
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Old Thu Apr 29, 2004, 02:07pm
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You gave em 3 minutes for arguing with an official? Wow that's rather harsh.
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Old Fri Apr 30, 2004, 01:32pm
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Depends on what words are used during the argument.
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Old Fri Apr 30, 2004, 04:15pm
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Ah yes, I agree.
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Old Fri Apr 30, 2004, 04:56pm
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I'm just curious, did he call you any names or anything? Because I would give a flagarant USC and eject.
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Old Mon May 03, 2004, 12:15pm
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It was never personal, but he started the first one with a profanity laced tirade, then continued after the first flag and after I warned him of another flag if he didn't stop.
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