5x5 or 4x4 after matching penalties

[OnDeck]

I am a baseball umpire and a LONG time follower of college hockey...and I have ALWAYS been confused by this: when both teams receive minor penalties on the same play, what determines if play restarts "5 on 5" or "4 on 4"? I used to think it had to do with whether the infractions occurred during play or after the whistle...or that it was different when infractions were simultaneous as opposed to one being retaliation...but after seeing several hundred games over the years, I've never been able to figure this out.

[RefWEB]

Originally Posted by OnDeck

I am a baseball umpire and a LONG time follower of college hockey...and I have ALWAYS been confused by this: when both teams receive minor penalties on the same play, what determines if play restarts "5 on 5" or "4 on 4"? I used to think it had to do with whether the infractions occurred during play or after the whistle...or that it was different when infractions were simultaneous as opposed to one being retaliation...but after seeing several hundred games over the years, I've never been able to figure this out.

It all depends on what rulebook you're using.

NCAA rules follow the "professional" Model......if the penalty box is empty, and one player on each team get a minor at the same stoppage, teams will restart 4 on 4. If there are players currently in the box, or if there are more than one player per team getting minors, then the coincidental penalty rule will apply (NCAA Rules 4.2 e, f and g).

In games played under USAH or Hockey Canada rules (for example), the coincident penalty rules ALWAYS apply.

[Welpe]

Thanks for responding RefWEB. I've been wanting to dig into the NCAA rulebook to figure this out but haven't had the time.

[RefWEB]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Thanks for responding RefWEB. I've been wanting to dig into the NCAA rulebook to figure this out but haven't had the time.

I'm Canadian, so I had to dig in the NCAA book to find the answer

[Welpe]

You mean Canadians aren't born with an innate knowledge of hockey rules from all over the world?

[RefWEB]

Originally Posted by Welpe

You mean Canadians aren't born with an innate knowledge of hockey rules from all over the world?

Canadians are born with an innate knowledge of the only rulebook that matters

Just like every American is born completely understanding the OBR

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by RefWEB

Just like every American is born completely understanding the OBR

I didn't realize that Canadians were completely clueless about hockey

-Josh

[RefWEB]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I didn't realize that Canadians were completely clueless about hockey

-Josh

Sit in the stands during a youth game. You'll get your answer soon enough

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RefWEB

Sit in the stands during a youth game. You'll get your answer soon enough

Some things are the same regardless of borders.

I saw an interesting play in an AHL game I went to on Sunday. Visiting team
B2 throws an elbow that gets called by the referee. Just after the whistle,
A19 comes in and shoves B2 and they get in each other's face.

The zebras get everyone separated and assess a minor for elbowing to B2, and then a minor to B2 and A19 for unsportsmanlike conduct. B2, another visiting player and A19 are all sent to the sin bin and the home team is on the powerplay. Home team scores on the power play and everyone is released from the penalty box.

I get that B2 is released after the goal but I would have thought that the two serving the unsportsmanlike conduct penalties would have stayed. Obviously I need to read up on the rules a little more.

[RefWEB]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Some things are the same regardless of borders.

I saw an interesting play in an AHL game I went to on Sunday. Visiting team
B2 throws an elbow that gets called by the referee. Just after the whistle,
A19 comes in and shoves B2 and they get in each other's face.

The zebras get everyone separated and assess a minor for elbowing to B2, and then a minor to B2 and A19 for unsportsmanlike conduct. B2, another visiting player and A19 are all sent to the sin bin and the home team is on the powerplay. Home team scores on the power play and everyone is released from the penalty box.

I get that B2 is released after the goal but I would have thought that the two serving the unsportsmanlike conduct penalties would have stayed. Obviously I need to read up on the rules a little more.

Something doesn't sound right there...under my understanding of the rules, the player serving the minor for B2 should have been the only one to come out of the box once the goal was scored.

B2 has to sit his entire 4 minutes ("or less because of the goal) and A19 has to sit for a full two minutes (as his penalty is coincidental with one of B2's). I don't think AHL rules in this regard are much different to any other rulebook in use...

[Welpe]

I'm about 95% certain it happened that way, as my wife thought it was strange also that they cleared the penalty box and I didn't have an explanation for it either.

Here's the gamesheet:

http://theahl.com/stats/official-gam...ame_id=1008517

[RefWEB]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm about 95% certain it happened that way, as my wife thought it was strange also that they cleared the penalty box and I didn't have an explanation for it either.

Here's the gamesheet:

Gamesheet: Oklahoma City at Houston - Apr 10, 2011

Unfortunatly, the gamesheet doesn't indicate when the players left the penalty box.....only when they went in.

Looking at the AHL rulebook online, their application of the coincident rule seems to be consistant with other leagues, so I can't explain what happened

[Welpe]

Who is responsible for actually releasing the players in these situations? The off ice officials administering the penalty box?

[RefWEB]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Who is responsible for actually releasing the players in these situations? The off ice officials administering the penalty box?

The Referee is always in charge of any and all aspects of officiating, on and off-ice.

The off-ice officials should know the rules pertaining to their job and follow them accordingly, but it always ends up in the referee's lap to mop up any messes.