From J Rutledge on the basketball board 11/17/04 (it was closed shotly thereafter) -

I will keep it to officiating for a second.

Name one white official that has facial hair at the D1 or pro levels of any league?

I cannot name one.

Guess what, I can name several African-Americans that do.

Johnny Grier--NFL (there is another Black Referee or White hat that has a mustache; I just do not know his name right now).

Steve Paman--Big Ten Football

Danny Crawford--NBA

Tom Rucker--D1 Official retired

Donny Gray--D1 Basketball Official, Big Ten, ACC and Conference USA to name a few.

(There is even one in the Big East, but I do not know his name)
••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••

I can only speak for my sport, baseball, but there are hundreds of D-1 umpires with facial hair. Most of them have moustaches, a few have goatees and a couple sport full beards. Some shave because it is more comfortable wearing a facemask, others don't shave for the same reason. I can think of a handful of Minor League and Major Leaguers that have moustaches, as well. None of these umps are black.

I'm also aware of a condition called "nubs" that afflicts african americans and blacks worldwide. The facial hair is coarse and curls back into the skin, often painfully, causing in grown hairs. This may be another reason why most prefer to keep clean shaven in a world of sweat and stress.

Windy,

The shaving causes the hair to grow back into the skin. Not letting it grow.

Peace

I wasn't really concerned with the why as much as the who.

I was just pointing out another example of a generalization not based in fact.

That is not even a generalization.

Peace

No one I am talking to was a baseball umpire. Baseball is a totally different animal. In baseball you can wear a uniform that is not the same as your partners and that is still considered professional. In football if one official wears long sleeves, we all wear long sleeves. In basketball if one person wears a jacket in pregame warm-ups, we all wear jackets in pregame warm-up. In both football and basketball the things that are acceptable are not the same as baseball. The very reason you do not see any football officials wear sun glasses while working a game. It is not considered professional attire. I know Windy you seem to think everyone thinks or cares about baseball, but you cannot name one white official in football or baseball at the levels I just mentioned that has any facial hair.

Rich Wiley a former D1 Football and Basketball official from Chicago (former member of one of my current associations) made this statement, "Only Black guys can wear facial hair." Mr. Wiley is the only official to work a Final Four and a Rose Bowl in his career. Now I know he was not talking about baseball or gave a damn about it in his comments. You are right, there are many white umpires that wear facial hair, but I did not make the statement on the baseball board. I know this, I was told to remove my goatee for basketball. I have never been told to do anything with my facial hair in baseball.

Peace

No one I am talking to was a baseball umpire.

Exaggeration #1: We have multiple basketball officials that also work baseball. I know of at least three moderators...should I go on?
••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••• •

Baseball is a totally different animal. In baseball you can wear a uniform that is not the same as your partners and that is still considered professional. In football if one official wears long sleeves, we all wear long sleeves. In basketball if one person wears a jacket in pregame warm-ups, we all wear jackets in pregame warm-up.

Exaggeration #2: Are you speaking for every state and every level? I didn’t know that you were versed in all of the pertinent uniform codes. Do the white coats use the same standards?
••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••• •
In both football and basketball the things that are acceptable are not the same as baseball. The very reason you do not see any football officials wear sun glasses while working a game. It is not considered professional attire.

Exaggeration #3: I saw a Public Game the other day (yes, it was varsity day game) and two of the officials were sporting Oakleys. I guess that they were more concerned with being able to see the play than complying with your preconception. Also, I travel all over the country and have seen officials in Texas, Florida and Arizona wearing eye protection.
••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••

I know Windy you seem to think everyone thinks or cares about baseball, but you cannot name one white official in football or baseball at the levels I just mentioned that has any facial hair.

Oh, Oh Rut, Windy Got you!: Let’s see, when I had lunch with Tim Tschida last winter, I could have sworn he had a moustache. Maybe he was just eating really hairy soup!
••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••

Rich Wiley a former D1 Football and Basketball official from Chicago (former member of one of my current associations) made this statement, "Only Black guys can wear facial hair." Mr. Wiley is the only official to work a Final Four and a Rose Bowl in his career. Now I know he was not talking about baseball or gave a damn about it in his comments. You are right, there are many white umpires that wear facial hair, but I did not make the statement on the baseball board. I know this, I was told to remove my goatee for basketball. I have never been told to do anything with my facial hair in baseball.

If you shaved because an assignor told you to, then you are dumber than we thought. I didn’t know that the Constitution was abolished. Secondly read this line from your quote again...

“Name one white official that has facial hair at the D1 or pro levels of any league?”

Are you telling me that we should have known that you meant that this doesn’t include baseball? “pro levels of any league” sounds like you were including it to me. Stop trying to spin and twist your lies, it is getting ridiculous!

Well, my comments were on the Basketball board. I would assume that anyone I was talking to would refer mostly to basketball or even football since those were the only two sports that I referenced or was talking about. I guess you could assume baseball if you wanted to. You have that right and can do so. But most people did not seem to take issue with my comments except for you. You are the only person that took these comments and tried to put into a context of baseball. I think it would be a leap if someone used Soccer or hockey as an example based on the conversation we were having on the basketball board. There are more pro leagues than the NFL or NBA in those respective sports. There is Arena Football and World League Football and Canadian Football League. On the basketball side there is WNBA, NBDL, ABA and CBA just to name a few. So if you want to take the comments and put them into a sport I did not reference or care to talk about, that is your prerogative. Now if I referenced Major League Baseball, then it would have made since. But you did not hear me make one reference to any umpire in MLB or the minors, so I would not suspect anyone would be thinking of those sports. But then again, baseball is your life. It is not the life of everyone on that board and many people realize what goes on in the Majors (arguments, umpire conduct, conflict resolution) never takes place in the other sports that I am familiar with.

As stated before, you do not work any other sport outside of baseball and you never have. So I could see why you would be confused. I am still waiting for an example based on the sports I used that I am incorrect?

Peace

Keep waiting...you got caught again.

Your words tripped you up, not mine.



Just for the record, I have officiated other sports. I chose to concentrate on the one that I was best at and enjoyed most. Like I've said before, I would rather be outstanding at one sport than mediocre at several. You are not Jon Bible, no matter how much you pretend.

While you are waiting, why don't you start comparing our resumes and accomplishments. You stated that you could measure up. I have also noticed the absence of the member that accused me of being a wannabe JUCO umpire. Funny, but the truth sets you free!

Sure Windbag that was it. Anyone that works more than one sport is mediocre at them.

I think you need to stick to baseball. It is the only sport you can be fat and be successful. That is something to brag about.

Peace

How many friends do you have?
 

Hey Windy.....

Why are you so vitriolic? Has life dealt you that many bad cards that you appear not to have anything else to do but find fault in everyone you contact? (What a great personality for an official!)

Why not just leave....the forums would be much more positive and informative!

wl

Are you obtuse?
The tripe that spills from little Rut's fingers demands retort. He has plied his lies, exagerrations and bad advice for years. Many have taken him to task - I'm just better at it. In our little hamlet (the third largest metro area in the U.S.) I receive dozens of emails and phone calls lauding my attempts to prevent him from spreading his version of the truth. You are too new to remember that what prompted my zeal was his statements about Chicago baseball and umpiring. He is o the outside looking in and it shows. Look at how he closes each post - it is so important for him to feel important. The problem with that is that new members may actually believe his writings. He has been chastised here by more than one umpiring group director. He challenged my experience, accomplishments and want to conceal my identity. Now that it is known, he realizes that I am every bit his nightmare - my resume doesn't lie. I will retire when he does.

Hey Mick:

Can we create an argument forum just for these guys who seem to thrive on this?

I love the closing thought.

The Taliban prefers the same thinking.

Disputing lies, half truths and helping people understand another way is the sign of an advanced intelligence. If you would like, I can offer some advice on seeking cultures that condemn contrary thought and we can arrange a move.

I prefer to live in a world that allows discord. Advancements can only take place when one finds a problem with the status quo.

Lastly, this is a general discussion forum. We are offered this as a concession to spilling over onto more sport specific boards. Maturity dictates that you don't have to listen to Rush or Howard; like the radio, internet options abound.

I think you need a good woman in your life. You do not seem to have one right now, because if you did you would not worry about what I or anyone had to say.

None of my comments had anything to do with baseball or Chicago baseball to be specific. If your "friends" you claim have a problem with what I am saying, have their behinds confront me and say something. Outside of that, please do not tell me what people think that not only do not know me, but have never heard me speak publicaly on the issues we are talking about or know why I stand for my position.

You sound like the coach I had last night in a game and complained. He also thought that I gave a damn about what he said just like you actually think I give a damn what you say. I just entertain you because it brings me a laugh and a giggle. Life is too short and I like having fun and making life interesting.

Peace

Scott,
Without an audience, the discussion may stop.
mick

How's that resume comparison coming?


One more lie from Rut:

Here's what started it all...from my archive on McGriff's (November 4, 2003 - 3:18 p.m.) I saved this because it was part of a letter I provided to our Board of Directors.

"We have Big Dogs in our area that try to control what the rest of the umpires do. They belong mostly to one group an have a reputation that cost them some one of the best leagues. These Big dogs try to intimidate younger rookies and keep the best games for themselves. When I came here I talked to some other officials that warned me about how things are done with that group. I get plenty of games without working with them and my games are just as good. Look for games that are assigned by an assignor or athletic director directly. Know your skills and try to work with others that are the same. Soon you might be one of the Big Dogs."

Yep, that was beautiful...I responded about how some guys work harder and that it is not difficult to become a Big Dog, but it was tough to stay on top. I also pointed out that the group in question would never have him as a member, since he obviously had a confidence problem. I figured it would end, but I was wrong. Rut fails to see that he launched the first volley, but can't fight the war. My baseball season is over (clinics will begin soon), so I have the time to correct his inaccuracies (that is as nice as I could put it). Lying and cheating are horrible traits for officials. I think I've made that abundantly clear.

Magic 8 ball says: "I doubt it".

Windy,

I want what you are smoking.

Peace

Why? Your brain is damaged already.

Pretty soon, you will learn that your own words are your worst enemy.

Okay...remind me now. That would be bad....how?

:)

LOL!!!
 

Windy,

Why are we going to compare resumes?

We are both focused on different sports.

We both do not share the same years of experience in any sport.

We both do not belong to the same officiating circles.

We both do not have the same officiating goals.

You get high on drugs, I do not.

We are not the same people or the same values. You think being a Big Dog is a big deal. I am still trying to figure out who in the sports I care about even consider themselves as a "Big Dog."

What is there to compare? You want to start comparing how many varsity basketball games you have compared to the ones I work.

That is why I want what you are smoking to try to compare things that will never apply to each other.

Peace

In my lifetime I have worked about, ummmm, no varsity basketball games. Football, on the other hand, has allowed me to work, ummmm, oh yeah, no varsity games either. You see, I speak the truth.

If you want, I can copy your post, place it on the baseball board and ask how many members remember you calling me out. Actually, it would be fun to go back and find the posts that had you and HHH saying that you suspected that I was all hot air. On more than a few occassions, you actually had the audacity to say that if I was so talented, how come nobody in Chicago knew who I am. Uh, oh, now that the light is on, you pretend that you never said those things.

In baseball, you couldn't carry my gear bag. You are still dreaming to be considered a professional official in any sport. I've never claimed to be a basketball or football official, while you pretend to be an umpire. I've seen you work, when you were unware. It cost me nothing to watch (except for a couple of Advil after the game). If you want to see me you will have to pay at the gate.

The Big Dog tag was your moniker. You can pretend all you want, but your words cost you big time.

If this were a gunfight, you'd still be reaching long after you felt the pain...

[Edited by WindyCityBlue on Nov 19th, 2004 at 05:02 PM]

I got 5 on it!!
 

Let me say this to you Windy.

I think whatever you are smoking you need to pass it to someone else from time to time.

If you think I care about working the pros, you have never had a serious conversation with me or anyone that is around me.

Secondly, I do not care that you saw me work a basketball or football game. Get in line buddy. There are a lot of people that have seen me work.

Dude pass the blunt to someone else sometime. Your little threats and claims are becoming funnier and more delusional each time you post.

Get some help quickly.

Peace

Once again, the only thing you passed on was ignoring your challenge. You now know the identity of WindyCityBlue. Who's pretending now? You said that you would put up your baseball credentials against mine. Still want to play, or will you finally shut up?

BTW genius, I never said that I saw you work basketball or football. But Chuck Gandolfi agreed that you butchered his Varsity game against Warren. I was there and it was ridiculous.

Just for the record, this thread was to correct your assertion that facial hair only exists on a few professional officials and that they are black. I corrected your premise and you still haven't acknowledged it. You might want to consider that guys who run and sweat so much might not want such encumbrances.

Mr. Windbag,

I Have one question for you,

Do you have something personal against Rut??

If you do, I speak for everyone when I say keep it the **** off the board.

If you do not, then stop taking every post he makes and repeating it back to him with your opinions. Rut wrote it, he knows what's in it, he doesn't need you telling him what he said.

Hopefully this saves bandwidth and server space for those of us who actually use the board for meaningful officiating discussions.

Windy....No occupation.....no interests?? Hmmm
 

How many agree???? Windy's a JERK!

Time to move on and ignore him. He adds nothing positive to any of the forums!

wl

Man, can I get what you are smoking? I really want to be in fantasy land like you are.

So. :rolleyes: I worked 50 varsity baseball games last year and all you can come up with is one coach that did not like the job I did in his game? So f@@king what. I have worked games in all sports with some very powerful coaches and if he did not like the job I did, I will have to keep that in mind the next time I see him. Because I am sure I will see him again. We always do.

You are not Black. So having a discussion with you about why or they do not wear facial hair is not only silly but pointless. I know a lot of men of color that do not officiate. If you think it boils down to sweat, than I will keep your "ignit" behind thinking so.

Peace

First off, you don't speak for everyone. Somebody has to keep tabs on Rut, it might as well be Windbag.

Second, Rut has no clue what he writes. He'll change his mind and deny it in minute, even when it's quoted back at him.

Third, those two deserve each other, kind of like ying and yang.