Goalline Situation

[Warrenkicker]

Originally posted by mbcrowder
I don't know how one would adequately define "The fumble rolled to B-5 and will not be able to roll into the endzone but is still rolling." How do you know a ball will not be able to roll into the endzone unless it comes to a complete stop? A ball has a funny shape, and fields are not level.

First off I'm not sure where you are getting the rules you are quoting as Rule 8 under NF only goes to 8-5-4. Beside that the rules you are stating I would agree have the same basic premise of the ones in my book. As for how do you know if a ball won't reach the EZ it can be very easy sometimes. This was not a well manicured field and the grass was probably 3 inches tall. It was very obvious that the ball would not cover another 15 feet on its own but would have stopped in about 1 or 2 feet. Like I said before other officials said that we should have ruled touchback because neither team would have questioned that call.

[MD Longhorn]

NCAA rules - sorry. That's what I'm used to looking at.

Anyway, the rules don't require you to use ANY judgement on whether it will or will not reach the end zone, as it seems they are specifically written to separate a ball in motion from a ball that's stopped.

If you had to use judgement, then the call gets VERY squirrelly. What if the ball had the same speed as the one you had to rule on, but was on the 2 yard line. Same ruling? What about the 1 yard line? Where does it get iffy. But the rule, if I'm interpreting it correctly, takes the worry out of your hands. If it's stopped, it's one thing, if it's not then it doesn't matter how fast it's going or in what direction (or how many players it hits) - ALL impetus is charged to the fumbler.

Am I reading this wrong?

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by VaASAump
Before I answer, was B34 attempting to possess the ball when it became motionless, or after the ball was motionless?

If before it became motionless, then safety. If after the ball was already motionless, then A's ball on B's 1 yd line.

REPLY: Original play...safety. But VaASAump, how could you possibly have A's ball on B's 1??

Second play: also safety

And mbcrowder...it sounds like you're quoting NCAA rules ("impetus") and I believe everything posted in this thread is referring to Federation rules where it is not required that the ball be at rest for a new impetus/force to be applied.

[cmathews]

Bob, it is my guess that he is referring to the ball being at rest with no one trying to gain possession. It is a stretch yes, because it appears that a is trying to gain possession, however if it is motionless with no one attempting to gain possession it goes to the team last in possession, in this case A at the 1.

[MD Longhorn]

Actually, no. In the case of no one trying to gain possession (for some bizarre reason), it's a dead ball.

However, I was referring to NCAA rules - which is what we use here. The question that began the thread did not specify, and I incorrectly assumed.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by cmathews
Bob, it is my guess that he is referring to the ball being at rest with no one trying to gain possession. It is a stretch yes, because it appears that a is trying to gain possession, however if it is motionless with no one attempting to gain possession it goes to the team last in possession, in this case A at the 1.

REPLY: That could be, but if there's a live ball sitting motionless in the field of play after a fumble or backward pass, I'm going to wait a l-o-n-g time. I'll need to see both teams walking away. That ball will need to have moss growing on it before I blow it dead. For a scrimmage kick, it's a different story.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by mbcrowder
Actually, no. In the case of no one trying to gain possession (for some bizarre reason), it's a dead ball.

REPLY: Mike, that's the same for Federation. I was really looking more at your choice of the word "impetus." I officiate with both codes.

[MD Longhorn]

Thanks, Bob. I was saying no to cmathews's supposition. You have it right - I was looking at NCAA.

[keystoneref]

The play as presented is a safety. The key to the play is this: As stated, A fumbled and the ball WOULD NOT HAVE REACHED THE EZ. B then attempted to recover and added a new force to a grounded fumble. When that new force put the ball into B's endzone where it became dead, you have 1 of two possible outcomes. If A recovers you have a touchdown, and if B recovers and does not advance the ball out of the endzone it is a safety.