downing a punt???????????// spot..

[mcrowder]

Somebody is using my old name (see far above). I DID NOT POST THAT, and thought that screen name was dead.

Anyway - NCAA and NFL are the same in the fact that K's touching of the ball doesn't kill the play, and gives R a (nearly) free pass at picking it up after a touch and trying to advance it. They differ in that the NFL uses Basketball-style rules regarding the end-zone line on this play, and the NCAA doesn't care where the player is when they touch it - only where the BALL is. (Note - I say "nearly" above because if R is called for a foul during the return, they lose their ability to go back to the K-touch spot if K accepts the penalty.)

Someone mentioned above that it wouldn't matter if the ball rolled into the EZ after K touched it at the 2. It WOULD matter. If it rolled into the EZ, R would get the ball at the 20, not the 2.

[l3will]

Just want to note that there can be multiple "spot of first touching" spots. Rule 6.2.5.

So if K touches a scrimmage kick that is untouched by R beyoned the expanced neutral zone, say at the 5, 8 and 10 before the kick comes to rest. R has the choice of all three spots...
barring penalties.

Got enough bean bags!

[Bob M.]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Suudy

...K's ball, 4th and 10 from K's 50. K1 punts and as the ball is bounding towards R's endzone, K2 bats the ball away from the endzone at R's 5. The batted ball striks R1 and K2 recovers at R's 6. After the touching, R2 blocks K3 in the back.

REPLY: I think warrenkicker inadvertently quoted the first touching rule for free kicks instead of scrimmage kicks, but the principles are the same.

Take a look at these excerpts from NF 6-2-4 and 6-2-5:
ART. 4…(referring to touching of a kick by a receiver) "...Such touching is ignored if it is caused by K pushing or blocking R into contact with the ball or it is caused by K legally batting or muffing the ball into R."
ART. 5… (referring to how R's right to first touching may be cancelled) "The right of R to take the ball at spot of first touching by K is canceled if R touches the kick and thereafter during the down commits a foul or if the penalty is accepted for any foul committed during the down."

K first touched this scrimmage kick at R's 5. Since K batted the ball into R, that touching by R is ignored. In short, they didn't touch the ball. Therefore, the first way for them to lose their first touch privelege (by touching the ball and thereafter fouling) is moot. However, they did commit a foul (IBB). So if K accepts the penalty for this foul, R's right to first touching is cancelled. But assuming that R's IBB occurred beyond the expanded neutral zone (suudy didn't say exactly where), this foul now qualifies for PSK enforcement. It will be R's ball 1-10 at R's 3 (end of the kick) or from some spot closer to R's goal line (if R's foul occurred inside R's 6).

[theknightswhosay]

In the play that led to my question, the receiving team took the ball where it went dead rather than where it was touched. If the receiving team had committed a foul, could they still take the ball at the 6 rather than the 2 (assuming they had touched the ball as a result of the batting of the ball)?

[JasonTX]

Originally posted by theknightswhosay
In the play that led to my question, the receiving team took the ball where it went dead rather than where it was touched. If the receiving team had committed a foul, could they still take the ball at the 6 rather than the 2 (assuming they had touched the ball as a result of the batting of the ball)?

Be careful reading too much into some of the replies above as some replies are for NFHS (high school) My replies are strickly NCAA (college and high school in Texas and Mass.)
An accepted penalty cancels the illegal touch. In your example the kick ended at the 2 so that is end of the kick (post scrimmage kick spot) Here's the requirements for post scrimmage kick enforcement. The enforcement spot is the spot where the kick ends when Team B fouls occur
a. During scrimmage kick plays other than a try and during extra periods.
b. During a scrimmage kick play in which the ball crosses the neutral zone.
c. Three yards or more beyond the neutral zone.
d. Before the end of the kick.
e. When team A does not have (legal) possession of the ball when the down ends.
Team B fouls behind the postscrimmage kick spot are spot fouls.

[Suudy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bob M.

Since K batted the ball into R, that touching by R is ignored. In short, they didn't touch the ball.

Yeah, I went back and looked it up. I didn't recall seeing batting or muffs in the description of what touching is ignored. But yeah, 6.2.4 says it.

Thanks for the pointer!

[Warrenkicker]

Originally posted by Bob M.
REPLY: I think warrenkicker inadvertently quoted the first touching rule for free kicks instead of scrimmage kicks, but the principles are the same.
[/B]

Yes I did. I meant to paste this.

6.2.4 SITUATION: It is fourth and 10 and K11 punts the ball from K’s 40-yard line. While R1 and K1 are engaged in blocking downfield at R’s 30-yard line, K2 legally bats the ball at R’s 28-yard line and the batted ball touches R1 on the leg. Then, K3 recovers the ball at the 30-yard line. RULING: This touching by R is ignored and R will have the choice of taking the ball at the spot of first touching or the dead-ball spot.

[theknightswhosay]

Originally posted by JasonTX

Be careful reading too much into some of the replies above as some replies are for NFHS (high school) My replies are strickly NCAA (college and high school in Texas and Mass.)
An accepted penalty cancels the illegal touch. In your example the kick ended at the 2 so that is end of the kick (post scrimmage kick spot) Here's the requirements for post scrimmage kick enforcement. The enforcement spot is the spot where the kick ends when Team B fouls occur
a. During scrimmage kick plays other than a try and during extra periods.
b. During a scrimmage kick play in which the ball crosses the neutral zone.
c. Three yards or more beyond the neutral zone.
d. Before the end of the kick.
e. When team A does not have (legal) possession of the ball when the down ends.
Team B fouls behind the postscrimmage kick spot are spot fouls.

By cancel the illegal touch, you mean that the option to take it at the 6 is created because of the illegal touch at the two. Making that touch no longer illegal cancels the option?