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JasonLJ Mon Oct 13, 2014 05:07pm

Thoughts on this
 
Texas High School Football Team Fools Opponent with Tricky Onside Kick | Bleacher Report

JasonLJ Mon Oct 13, 2014 05:11pm

Not sure if Texas follows different rules but seems to me that there were several people touching or behind the 35, can't tell about how many were on each side of the ball. But what stood out to me as well was I doesn't look like the ball hits the ground. Therefore k can't catch the ball. Also looks like he was advancing it which he also can't do. Now I watched this on my phone so I could be wrong about the ball hitting the ground on the kick.

Welpe Mon Oct 13, 2014 05:18pm

All I see is a mobile site without a video or link.

The NCAA rule is different from the NFHS rule as far as free kick formations go. All kicking team players except the kicker must have at least one foot on the 35 (technically the 30 in pure NCAA but in Texas HS it is the 35) but the rest of them can be further than that. As I understand the NFHS rule, all of the kicking team players except the kicker must be entirely inside the 35 correct?

Welpe Mon Oct 13, 2014 05:28pm

Is this the same play?

https://vine.co/v/OAX1YFQVDzq

If so, it seems legal as long as the wide out player was inside the numbers some point after the ready. In NCAA the ball does not have to touch the ground in order for the kicking team to legally recover, it only has to go 10 yards.

JasonLJ Mon Oct 13, 2014 05:31pm

Texas High School Football Team Fools Opponent with Tricky Onside Kick | Bleacher Report

JasonLJ Mon Oct 13, 2014 05:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 941577)
Is this the same play?

https://vine.co/v/OAX1YFQVDzq

If so, it seems legal as long as the wide out player was inside the numbers some point after the ready. In NCAA the ball does not have to touch the ground in order for the kicking team to legally recover, it only has to go 10 yards.

That is is. This is a high school game though isn't it?

Welpe Mon Oct 13, 2014 05:34pm

It is but jr high and high school play by NCAA rules here.

JasonLJ Mon Oct 13, 2014 05:35pm

I'm not sure if it is high school or not. This would have never happened in PA. Everyone needs to be inside the 35, not touching it. And if they were, the ball doesn't hit the ground, (if it does, I don't see it) so there would be an illegal touching penalty.

JasonLJ Mon Oct 13, 2014 05:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 941581)
It is but jr high and high school play by NCAA rules here.

OK. Then it's a nice play. :D

Welpe Mon Oct 13, 2014 05:39pm

I just watched the video you posted and it looks like the wide player shifted to outside the numbers however the player at the back of the huddle looks to be standing at about the 39. I think that makes this play illegal but it's close.

Robert Goodman Mon Oct 13, 2014 08:38pm

The only remaining consideration is whether it's a simulated substitution. The player keeps facing in-field, so I don't think so. If it were, then you'd have to say teams don't get to use the whole width of the playing area to line up in.

stratref Tue Oct 14, 2014 03:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonLJ (Post 941582)
I'm not sure if it is high school or not. This would have never happened in PA. Everyone needs to be inside the 35, not touching it. And if they were, the ball doesn't hit the ground, (if it does, I don't see it) so there would be an illegal touching penalty.

I hope you mean kick catching interference. Illegal touching of a free kick is not a penalty in NFHS. Not saying it is not a foul, just the term "Illegal Touching" doesn't apply to a free kick in NFHS. There is first touching if within the neutral zone or KCI if touched before touching the ground, regardless if there was an R player in position to catch the ball.

Personal pet peeve of mine because of the 2-3 dozen times I have had to wipe off flags and explain to coaches why they don't get a "re-kick" after a first touching violation.

As for the video, looks completely legal to me for NCAA rules as I know them (Disclaimer, I don't work NCAA rules at any level but occasionally look up differences because of a request of a HS coach who had a rule wrong, or though a NCAA rule applied. It really makes a difference if a coach is a former college coach.

Jasper

JasonLJ Tue Oct 14, 2014 08:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratref (Post 941608)
I hope you mean kick catching interference. Illegal touching of a free kick is not a penalty in NFHS. Not saying it is not a foul, just the term "Illegal Touching" doesn't apply to a free kick in NFHS. There is first touching if within the neutral zone or KCI if touched before touching the ground, regardless if there was an R player in position to catch the ball.

Personal pet peeve of mine because of the 2-3 dozen times I have had to wipe off flags and explain to coaches why they don't get a "re-kick" after a first touching violation.

As for the video, looks completely legal to me for NCAA rules as I know them (Disclaimer, I don't work NCAA rules at any level but occasionally look up differences because of a request of a HS coach who had a rule wrong, or though a NCAA rule applied. It really makes a difference if a coach is a former college coach.

Jasper

That is what I meant. Thank you for the clarification.

Rich Tue Oct 14, 2014 08:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratref (Post 941608)
I hope you mean kick catching interference. Illegal touching of a free kick is not a penalty in NFHS. Not saying it is not a foul, just the term "Illegal Touching" doesn't apply to a free kick in NFHS. There is first touching if within the neutral zone or KCI if touched before touching the ground, regardless if there was an R player in position to catch the ball.

Personal pet peeve of mine because of the 2-3 dozen times I have had to wipe off flags and explain to coaches why they don't get a "re-kick" after a first touching violation.

As for the video, looks completely legal to me for NCAA rules as I know them (Disclaimer, I don't work NCAA rules at any level but occasionally look up differences because of a request of a HS coach who had a rule wrong, or though a NCAA rule applied. It really makes a difference if a coach is a former college coach.

Jasper

Between the RFP and the kick, no player can be more than 5 yards from K's restraining line. Appears one player is. That's a live ball illegal formation foul.

MD Longhorn Tue Oct 14, 2014 08:46am

Should have been illegal formation on the guy at the back of the huddle.


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