More kick issues

[Schultj]

As you can tell, I'm studying rule 8...

I believe that the ruling for 8.3.2 situation C is incorrect. The penalty could be accepted and enforced on the kickoff.

My question is why is a scrimmage kick simultaneously recovered in K's endzone a touchdown for R and not a safety? Isn't K's force on the kick the reason for the ball being there, so the team in last possession should retain possession in a simultaneous situation, similar to a simultaneous catch - the team in last possession (the offense) gets the benefit of the doubt. It seems contradictory to me.

[James Neil]

Schultj,
You need to go back and spend some time in rule 6
6-2-7 says in part " When any scrimmage kick is out of bounds between the goal lines or becomes dead inbounds between the goal lines while no player is in possession, or "INBOUNDS ANYWHERE"(caps are mine) while the opponents are in joint possession, the ball is awarded to R.

[PSU213]

Originally posted by Schultj
As you can tell, I'm studying rule 8...

I believe that the ruling for 8.3.2 situation C is incorrect. The penalty could be accepted and enforced on the kickoff.

My question is why is a scrimmage kick simultaneously recovered in K's endzone a touchdown for R and not a safety? Isn't K's force on the kick the reason for the ball being there, so the team in last possession should retain possession in a simultaneous situation, similar to a simultaneous catch - the team in last possession (the offense) gets the benefit of the doubt. It seems contradictory to me.

First, 8.3.2C is incorrect. At our rules chapter rules interpretation meeting last year we were told to change this in our books. It should read "in (c) since the 2-point try is successful, the penalty is enforced from the succeeding spot." In this case, of course, the succeeding spot is the kickoff spot.

As for the catch of the kick question, there are different rules for simultaneous catches of kicks versus passes. For passes, if there is a simultaneous catch the ball belongs to the passing team (7-5-4). As James said, if the kick is jointly possessed, the ball is awarded to R. R's ball in K's EZ...TD for R.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by Schultj

My question is why is a scrimmage kick simultaneously recovered in K's endzone a touchdown for R and not a safety? Isn't K's force on the kick the reason for the ball being there, so the team in last possession should retain possession in a simultaneous situation, similar to a simultaneous catch - the team in last possession (the offense) gets the benefit of the doubt. It seems contradictory to me.

So, how did the kick end up in K's end zone?

There just had to be a force that turned the ball 180 degrees.

[Theisey]

Originally posted by Schultj
As you can tell, I'm studying rule 8...

I believe that the ruling for 8.3.2 situation C is incorrect. The penalty could be accepted and enforced on the kickoff.
...

If you hurry, go to this link an correct some of the "printing errors" your 2002 books. Hopefully these did not carry over into the 2003 books. What I mean by hurry is that this page will soon be overlayed with 2003 stuff.

here is the link: http://www.nfhs.org/sports/football_interp.htm

[PSU213]

Originally posted by Ed Hickland

So, how did the kick end up in K's end zone?

There just had to be a force that turned the ball 180 degrees.

I'm not sure what you mean by this Ed. In the given situation, its always a TD and force has no bearing on this ruling, but if K were to fall on the kick in their EZ then force becomes important. The ball could turn 180 degrees after touching an R player and go into the EZ, yet the responsible force could still be K's kick.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Theisey
If you hurry, go to this link an correct some of the "printing errors" your 2002 books. Hopefully these did not carry over into the 2003 books.

Our state director told us that this year's books are the worst the NF has ever printed, as far as errors go. He anticipates a huge listing of corrections to come out shortly.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by Ed Hickland


So, how did the kick end up in K's end zone?

There just had to be a force that turned the ball 180 degrees.

REPLY: Consider a punt blocked (in flight) at K's 5 that rebounds back into the EZ. Sure there's a force at play, but it's the force of K's kick.

[Forksref]

R gets ball in joint possession on kicks. A gets ball in joint possession of scrimmage play (fumble, pass).