Recovering from Football season
 

One little PS to the Mentor QB thread.

Conner Krizancic won't play this week as he recovers from the football season, which leaves Caleb Potter as the only returning starter on opening night.


No. 4 Mentor boys basketball seeing plenty of new faces as it attempts to defend state title (video) - cleveland.com

What's your point, John?

All irrelevant to what was observed on the field.

Sorry, thought you would find this.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=y...ure%3Dyoutu.be

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/yMA6aDP28fM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And you still have not proven anything with regards to what the officials observed or what the medical staff observed.

I don't understand what you expect from the officials here. He is down, the officials signal time out and call for medical staff. They don't know why he is down as players lay down injured all the time. The med staff comes and the officials leave the area to dead ball officiate. The med staff probably should have known and done something, that seems obvious after the fact.

The rule for the officials is not really for this situation when medical staff come on the scene. Its for what an official would observe from a player who is still in the game but giving off concussion signals that he didn't need treatment for at the time of the hit. The rule says that if he is directed out of the game then he can't come back. But an official needs to do that and you do that with a player you observe with the symptoms. We trust that the medical staff is going to be better prepared than we are to make judgements when they come on the scene. If I see a rb staggering around or out of it after a play that he got his bell rung but on his way back to the huddle then it is on me to look at him and make a judgement, but when a player is down on the ground it is up to the med staff to do the same.

If this rule is to have any effect, the officials needs to find out what is wrong with this player that is being removed after laying on the ground for 5 minutes, if it is head related at all he needs to say to the head coach, He is done for the day.

That is the referees responsibility is to make sure a kid does not return to play after a head injury.
The coach and the trainers are definitely wrong to put a kid back in after being removed.

The official still is charged with enforcement of this rule if a coach breaks it.

That is very clearly the spirit of this rule and law. You guys can act like it is not his job to go find out why the kid was down. The Law says he needs to know and make sure no athlete is put in danger of serious injury.

I'm glad I don't officiate in Ohio (at least for this reason).

No need to be, bigjohn is completely wrong on the officials' responsibilities and the implementation of this. The idea that the referee has a responsibility to intervene and ensure that others are following the law is contrary to anything in the statute or the training and implementation of this. Bigjohn, you are completely wrong on both the spirit and letter of the law.

4. What is the role of contest officials in administering the rule?
• Officials are to review and know the signs and symptoms of concussion and to direct
immediate removal of any student who displays these signs or symptoms. When informing the
head coach about removal of an athlete, the official shall be accompanied by another (second)
official if possible.
• An official shall not permit the athlete who has been removed under this rule to return to
competition that same day.
• If a contest official is aware that a student has been permitted to return to competition on the
same day as removal, that official shall immediately stop play and remove that student from
competition and report the incident to the OHSAA.


http://www.ohsaa.org/medicine/Concus...egulations.pdf

BigJohn, I am not from Ohio but no where in what you posted does it say that the Officials are to intervene in the treatment of a player to determine what their injury is. All it says is "
• An official shall not permit the athlete who has been removed under this rule to return to
competition that same day.
• If a contest official is aware that a student has been permitted to return to competition on the
same day as removal, that official shall immediately stop play and remove that student from
competition and report the incident to the OHSAA."

Therefore, since the Officials did not remove the player they have no responsibility to remove him again until they notice further symptoms of a concussion. If they did not notice any symptoms they the Officials have no duty to remove the player.

Did you get non-renewed in January because you don't know how to tell the truth?

Lie #1 If this were true, a cut on the forehead would preclude a player from returning. How about a cut lip? Then you have the issue of the return to play protocol. A cut lip or forehead are not signs, symptoms or behaviors of a concussion.

Lie #2 Ok Mr. Cut and Paste.....Show me in the ORC or the OHSAA regulations where this is the case.

everyone on our staff was non renewed in January. The Head Coach was not rehired.

I did not apply to be employed as a football coach this year, my son was on the staff as a volunteer assistant. I am going to retire from teaching June 1, 2014



Not sure when you say Lie what you mean. The way I read these rules everyone is responsible for this new law.

You can keep posting snippets out of context all you want, but all those apply to what the officials observe themselves in their normal course of duty. NOWHERE is an additional verification step or intervening with the judgment and actions of others implied, required, or even encouraged. Everyone is not responsible for everyone else, you have misread it. Everyone is responsible for what they observe and what they see, that's it.

You've been told countless times from people in the know that you are wrong, yet you continue to claim a law was broken, the officials knew the player was concussed, (because you "knew") that any injury in the head area causes a player to be removed, and the officials are supposed to stick their head in a group of medical professionals tending to an injured player.

You are either lying or just stupid.

If the rule is to do anything but chase officials out of the business, they need to not force officials to get involved in medical issues. Any law that tells officials to interject into situations where they are quite possibly the least qualified adults on the field needs to be repealed; and those who passed it flogged for stupidity.

The first year the NFHS rule was in place we had a player injured on an interception return. He was hit hard and apparently knocked out when his head hit the turf (the hit was legal). We called the medical staff out right away. This wasn't a situation where we saw a guy staggering and sent him out, but we could tell the likely injury was a concussion.

I don't think I would consider that in this case just seeing him on the ground because I can't see anything on the video that shows he obviously took a hit to the head. If I saw him get up and walk off like he did though, I would likely ask if the injury was a possible concussion. If the answer is yes then I would use our local procedure (no re-admission without clearance from a medical personnel and reporting to the state).

Does the crew NEED to be this diligent? No. Should they? I think they should.

I did not say they knew he was concussed. I said it was obvious he was showing signs or symptoms of a head injury/concussion. That is all that is needed for this rule to kick in. It doesn't matter who took him out of the game, it is the Referees job to stop play and remove him if he allowed back in the game.

That is what the DOD has said in official memos!
http://www.ohsaa.org/members/Memos/2013-08-30.pdf

3. Concussion:**When*a*player*has*signs*or*symptoms*o f*a*concussion*he*is*suspended*
from*the*game*and*may*not*reenter*the*game.**This* is*based*upon*Ohio*House*Bill*143.**
If*an*Ohio*Team*plays*a*game*in*another*state,*thi s*Rule*applies.**If*an*out*of*state*team*
plays*a*game*in*Ohio,*this*Rule*applies.**This*is* because*it*is*a*state*law*now

I know why we have talked about this before, but how was it obvious? Most of the stuff you claim that made it obvious was stuff after the game that you highlighted. Not sure how that is obvious. Not sure how that means the officials in the game noticed why the player was taken off the field? And BTW, the Referee is not the single person that stops play (more ignorance on your part). Any official can stop play for all kinds of reasons. One day you will realize that not everything is about what you think it should be.

Peace

You are correct, there are 5 officials that should have seen this.

And more ignorance, because 5 officials are not all watching the same things and certainly not the ball carrier. I would not be surprised if 3 or 4 guys did not even see the hit in question.

Peace

yeah, what were they all doing while he was being attended to an helped off the field?

Several things. Talking about down and distance. Observing huddles or conferences. Talking to each other about a player or coach question. There are so many things officials can be doing and are doing during any timeout situation. Even at the State Finals they might be talking to someone about if they are going to commercial and when they come back if the games are on TV. There are a lot of things going on because everyone is not always focused on the injury when medical personnel are taking care of the situation. But if you officiated you might know that already and stop acting like you are shocked that the "Referee" who was the original person you thought should have seen this. And the Referee in many cases is not watching the ball or every block. They are focused on their area of responsibility and would have no idea what is going on at other parts of the field.

Peace

That is a bunch of Bull!

It is clear to see most of officials observed the player. You can play your little game all you want. The kid should not have been back in the game per the memo from the DOD!
That is clear.

If it is clear than why did they not do what you suggest? Remember you said all 5 officials and did not know that they could be doing other things. ;)

Peace

I'm leaving the lights on, lock up when you all are out of breath and done.

Honestly ... except for the first few seconds, where I'm trying to determine if I need to stop the clock, I (and most official) generally see very little or nothing of the injured player. Kill play and then get out of the way. Most of these kids are pretty immediately surrounded by 6 coaches, 3 trainers, the occasional Dad, and 9 players. At most, if anything, we're trying to get players to back off. Once a players on the ground, I'm usually the last one to know what happened to a kid.

And no, no matter how loudly you might proclaim it ... this is not "bull".

If you state this as fact, then you are lying.

Doing what they were supposed to do.

They don't put themselves into the medical evaluation. The medical staff is now diagnosing, we don't diagnose, they do.

Staying (snip) out of the way of the people who actually know what they (snip) they're doing. That's what they were all doing.