Dead ball fouls and clock

[Warrenkicker]

I started this thread at the bottom of another question but think that it might be getting lost there.

Where is the actual rule that states the clock should be stopped for dead ball fouls?

I have found when the clock shall be stopped 3-4-4 and dead ball fouls don't seem to be included in that list.

Obviously we all stop the clock for dead ball fouls but where is the rule for it.

[JRutledge]

I could be completely misunderstanding your question, but I will give it a try. Clarify for me if this is not what you are asking.

We are going to stop the clock for all penalties, when the ball becomes dead or is already dead. And basically all penalties, at the end of the plays these are "official time-outs." So if the clock is running and we have a penalty, we are going to stop the clock to enforce the penalty with an official's time-out. And in some cases, the clock will not be stopped, because it might already be stopped by the previous action of the play.

Peace

[Warrenkicker]

Ok let's try this again. We all know that fouls stop the clock and that live-ball foul clock stoppage is covered under rule 3-4-4a. We also know that the time after the foul to administer the penalty is an official's timeout under 3-5-7j.

But WHAT SPECIFIC RULE FROM THE BOOK covers the clock stoppage for a dead-ball foul?

[STEVED21]

3-5-7j.

"An official's time out occurs during a dead ball without a time out being charged to either team:
j. After a foul, to administer the penalty."

[Warrenkicker]

So are you saying that a dead-ball foul DOES NOT stop the clock. It is however the official's timeout to administer the penalty which stops the clock. I just want to make sure that is what you have found. Because if that is what you are saying then when there is a delay of game by the offense whether the clock was running prior to the foul or not we do not wind the clock on the RFP. Thus #99 on Exam 1 is false.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker
So are you saying that a dead-ball foul DOES NOT stop the clock. It is however the official's timeout to administer the penalty which stops the clock. I just want to make sure that is what you have found. Because if that is what you are saying then when there is a delay of game by the offense whether the clock was running prior to the foul or not we do not wind the clock on the RFP. Thus #99 on Exam 1 is false.

I do not have the Part 1 in front of me, could you please post that question? Because 3-4-3i says, "The penalty for an accepted delay of game foul is accepted," is to be started on the snap. I kind of remember the question, but I do not have the test. So I have to think of what is being asked to relate it to that question.

Peace

[Warrenkicker]

Question #99 - A clock stopped during a period for an official's time-out will start with the ready-for-play signal unless a free kick follows.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker
Question #99 - A clock stopped during a period for an official's time-out will start with the ready-for-play signal unless a free kick follows.

I answered this true. I got a 98, so I am not completely sure which ones I got wrong at this time. But I think I was considering 3-4-2 when answering. And that does not seem to fit the original question you asked.

Peace

[STEVED21]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker
So are you saying that a dead-ball foul DOES NOT stop the clock. It is however the official's timeout to administer the penalty which stops the clock. I just want to make sure that is what you have found. Because if that is what you are saying then when there is a delay of game by the offense whether the clock was running prior to the foul or not we do not wind the clock on the RFP. Thus #99 on Exam 1 is false.

You're really splitting hairs here. To be technical, the clock operator is who really stops the clock.

On a dead ball foul, an official's time out is called. I don't know what else you would call it.

[Warrenkicker]

Well obviously these tests are written to split hairs. This was just one of those questions where I had a thought and was trying to look up the correct rule and couldn't find information on why we would stop the clock on a dead-ball foul. I mean the rules book didn't have anything in it up until now about what a penalty was. So what's to say that other things may be missing. If the test is going to be so specific that you must be concerned with every word in the question then it better have a reason for every word and not just a thought behind it that this description matches (along with others). You only have to come up with one situation to make any question false.

If it is not written that a dead-ball foul stops the clock then why is it written that the clock stops at the end of a down in which there was a live-ball foul?

[BktBallRef]

Warren, Steve cited the rule for you. What more do you want?

An official's time out occurs during a dead ball without a time out being charged to either team:
j. After a foul, to administer the penalty.

It doesn't matter whether it's a dead ball foul or a live ball foul. The clock is stopped once a foul occurs and the ball is dead.

[Warrenkicker]

Well that is fine if that is the concensus of this group that it is an official's time-out that stops the clock for a dead-ball foul. But using that fact when A commits a delay of game foul and it is accepted the clock is not wound on the RFP but it starts on the snap. This play that happens to each of us every year makes question #99 on the federation test false when everyone is agreeing that it is true.

I'm not trying to be dense here or anything but am just trying to make a point. We all know when to wind a clock and when to chop it but when we look at these large rules broken down into one sentence then it gets a little more difficult.

[Warrenkicker]

The trouble is that the test is advocating the answer is true because the test assumes there is no change of possession and no foul has occurred. That is one thing that I missed because both of our scenarios include that bit of information.

[cowbyfan1]

The delay of game, while a foul that will stop the clock (if it is already not stopped due to the previous play) for administration, will start on the snap is an exception to all the other fouls. The play itself dicates if the clock starts on the ready or the snap, requardless if there is a foul or not.