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maven Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by parepat (Post 913653)
Not sure I agree with #3. Are you saying that on a close first down play the game clock operator should stop the clock when he perceives the player to be down beyond the line to gain, or upon the signal of the official?

No. I said, "the relevant ways."

ajmc Tue Dec 10, 2013 05:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by parepat (Post 913653)
Not sure I agree with #3. Are you saying that on a close first down play the game clock operator should stop the clock when he perceives the player to be down beyond the line to gain, or upon the signal of the official?

On plays close to the Line to gain, anywhere on the field, the primary focus of a clock operator is on the Line Judge, who should be in the optimum position (On the line, facing the stakes) to judge if the LTG has been made, by signalling to stop the clock.

Rich Tue Dec 10, 2013 05:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmc (Post 913803)
On plays close to the Line to gain, anywhere on the field, the primary focus of a clock operator is on the Line Judge, who should be in the optimum position (On the line, facing the stakes) to judge if the LTG has been made, by signalling to stop the clock.

We agree completely. It's the L's job to stop the clock on a first down. As the R, the only signal I give is the first down signal, followed by the wind (if we're going to wind the clock). Our instructions are to look at the L for stopping the clock on a close LTG situation and then look at the R to start the clock.

On our crew, if the L tells me to look at the ball, we're having a measurement 99.9% of the time. Otherwise, he wouldn't be telling me to look. If the clock gets stopped to look, we're measuring 100% of the time.

parepat Wed Dec 11, 2013 03:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 913805)
We agree completely. It's the L's job to stop the clock on a first down. As the R, the only signal I give is the first down signal, followed by the wind (if we're going to wind the clock). Our instructions are to look at the L for stopping the clock on a close LTG situation and then look at the R to start the clock.

On our crew, if the L tells me to look at the ball, we're having a measurement 99.9% of the time. Otherwise, he wouldn't be telling me to look. If the clock gets stopped to look, we're measuring 100% of the time.

This is my point. On each of these occasions there is a time lag between the official deciding to stop the clock, and actually signaling it. There is also a time lag from the time the operator sees the signal and actually stops it. Thus, at any other point in the game, there may be a second or two between the runners foot touching out of bounds and the clock getting stopped. This lag is a result of human reaction time. In the play in question, no consideration was made for the time lag.

Robert Goodman Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by parepat (Post 913894)
This is my point. On each of these occasions there is a time lag between the official deciding to stop the clock, and actually signaling it. There is also a time lag from the time the operator sees the signal and actually stops it. Thus, at any other point in the game, there may be a second or two between the runners foot touching out of bounds and the clock getting stopped. This lag is a result of human reaction time. In the play in question, no consideration was made for the time lag.

Isn't it made up for by a similar lag in starting the clock?

parepat Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 913972)
Isn't it made up for by a similar lag in starting the clock?

Absolutely!!....Unless you eliminate it like they did in this scenario.

voiceoflg Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by parepat (Post 914007)
Absolutely!!....Unless you eliminate it like they did in this scenario.

And that goes back to my question. For this play, does the rule say the clock stops when the ball carrier's foot steps OOB, or when the official on the field signals?

ajmc Fri Dec 13, 2013 01:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by voiceoflg (Post 914053)
And that goes back to my question. For this play, does the rule say the clock stops when the ball carrier's foot steps OOB, or when the official on the field signals?

The rules do not specify to the level you are seeking, however there is an otherwise inherent understanding expressed regarding similar issues. As we are all advised, the sounding of a whistle merely signifies and announces a decision a covering official has made, so any unexpected delay in sounding the whistle does not alter the judgment already made requiring the whistle to be sounded.

It seems, somewhat obvious, that the same principle would apply to your question. The precise instant when the game time stops, is actually when the covering official decides that some action, specified in the rules, required the clock to stop. The signalling of that decision merely is announcing the decision that has already been made.

An example might be, an official deciding he observes that a runner has stepped on a sideline, and deciding that action requires the clock to be stopped is unexpectedly knocked down prior to being able to signal the clock stoppage. The time actually stopped when the official decided the action he observed rquires stopping the clock.

Officials don't usually stop clocks, with some exceptions, the clocks are stopped as a result of specific actions defined by rule.


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