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BuggBob Mon Oct 14, 2013 03:29pm
Referee moving defenders
 
During a PAT (or any time actually) , why will the referee appear to request a defender to move to one side or the other? I saw this last night on Sunday Night Football.

APG Mon Oct 14, 2013 03:30pm
The official will do this to prevent the defense from lining up over the snapper...which would be an illegal formation penalty on the defense. Under NFL rules, on any scrimmage kick, a player who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage must have his entire body outside the snapper's shoulder pads at the snap.

Rich Mon Oct 14, 2013 03:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG (Post 907580)
The official will do this to prevent the defense from lining up over the snapper...which would be an illegal formation penalty on the defense. Under NFL rules, on any scrimmage kick, a player who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage must have his entire body outside the snapper's shoulder pads at the snap.
Unfortunately, I had a HS varsity coach believe this was a rule on Friday night. Sigh.

Suudy Mon Oct 14, 2013 03:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 907581)
Unfortunately, I had a HS varsity coach believe this was a rule on Friday night. Sigh.
I haven't heard that one before. We get the usual "No contact after 5 yards!" or "But I was outside the pocket!".

Canned Heat Mon Oct 14, 2013 04:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 907581)
Unfortunately, I had a HS varsity coach believe this was a rule on Friday night. Sigh.
"He was lined up over our center!!!....How do you guys not see that??"

I often wonder who takes the test for these guys.

Suudy Mon Oct 14, 2013 04:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canned Heat (Post 907584)
"He was lined up over our center!!!....How do you guys not see that??"

I often wonder who takes the test for these guys.
A test for the coach! Hah! IIRC, only the head coach has to take the clinic, and the clinic is so basic that it doesn't help with this.

And regardless, for us it is usually some assistant yelling for a Saturday or Sunday call.

Canned Heat Mon Oct 14, 2013 04:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suudy (Post 907585)
A test for the coach! Hah! IIRC, only the head coach has to take the clinic, and the clinic is so basic that it doesn't help with this.

And regardless, for us it is usually some assistant yelling for a Saturday or Sunday call.
__________________________________________________ _______________

HC requirement here.....I sometimes swear they give them a free pass or a test from the mid-90's.

BuggBob Mon Oct 14, 2013 05:07pm
Thanks for the answer guys. As a official (in other sports) I find my viewing enjoyment is enhanced (or more frustrated) if I know the rules and officails mechanics. While football is my favorite sport, I'm too old and fat and too much of a fan to be a good football official.

JRutledge Mon Oct 14, 2013 05:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 907581)
Unfortunately, I had a HS varsity coach believe this was a rule on Friday night. Sigh.
We had a coach on Friday think that any contact with the snapper was illegal. Or that the snapper could keep his head down and he was given protection. Just another day and another dollar I guess.

Peace

Canned Heat Tue Oct 15, 2013 03:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 907597)
We had a coach on Friday think that any contact with the snapper was illegal. Or that the snapper could keep his head down and he was given protection. Just another day and another dollar I guess.

Peace
Speaking of which....if I had a dollar for every time I heard "they hit our center"....I'd literally be sitting with an umbrella laden cocktail on a beach.

zm1283 Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:57am
I think this had more to do with too many players lining up on one side of the center than a player actually being on the center. I saw this flagged a couple weeks ago in an NFL game. The defense had about seven players on the offense's right side during a FG try. I didn't know that rule but that's how the announcer's explained it. They could be very wrong of course.

APG Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 907759)
I think this had more to do with too many players lining up on one side of the center than a player actually being on the center. I saw this flagged a couple weeks ago in an NFL game. The defense had about seven players on the offense's right side during a FG try. I didn't know that rule but that's how the announcer's explained it. They could be very wrong of course.
That is a new rule in the NFL this year...no more than 6 players on either side of the snapper at the snap when the offense presents a field goal or try-kick formation.

Robert Goodman Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG (Post 907760)
That is a new rule in the NFL this year...no more than 6 players on either side of the snapper at the snap when the offense presents a field goal or try-kick formation.
That's very interesting, depending on how (if at all) FG formation is defined. Team A could line up unbalanced, but team B can't match?

jTheUmp Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFL Rulebook
Article 3:
During a punt, a field goal attempt, or a Try Kick, a Team B player, who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage at the snap, must have his entire body outside the snapper’s shoulder pads

Note: This restriction does not apply if a team does not present an apparent punt, field goal, or Try Kick formation, or if, after the offensive team has assumed a set position, there is a shift, or a player goes in motion.

Penalty: For illegal formation by the defense: Loss of five yards
from the previous spot.
So, there you go... if they line up in an 'unbalanced formation' as you suggest, the restriction is not in effect.

APG Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 907762)
That's very interesting, depending on how (if at all) FG formation is defined. Team A could line up unbalanced, but team B can't match?
From the rule book:

Note: These restrictions do not apply if a team does not present a standard punt, field goal, or Try Kick formation (an equal number of players on the line of scrimmage on either side of the snapper in a tight formation), or if, after the offensive team has assumed a set position, there is a shift, or a player goes in motion.

*Restrictions referring to lining up over the snapper and more than 6 on either side

**Just want to note that jTheUmp's quote is from last year's rule book


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