Snap before ready to play
 

Offense makes first down 20 yards down field and runs a quick offense. Chains are in the process of being moved and ball is spotted. Umpire is somewhat standing close to the ball and Ready for play has not been blown. The snapper snaps the ball.
The two things to remember: 1. Chains not set 2. Ready-for-play not giving.

What we got?:eek:

Sub-varsity: probably a "don't do that" in most cases; tight JV game I might treat as varsity.

Varsity: DOG 3-6-2e

Well is it delay of game, false start? Would you have 1st and 10 or 1st and 15?

Ah, I see your real question. You'd enforce the DOG 5 yards, set the chains for the new series, and have A 1/10 from there.

The line to gain is not established until the RFP. 5-3-1

It can't possibly be a false start, since the ball was not ready. 7-1-7

And according to what was written in a thread here about a week ago, in NCAA, you've got a real problem, since they're not required to "chop", whistle, or otherwise signal the RFP if the 40-sec. rule is in effect. Team A has no notice other than looking at the chain crew of whether they're allowed to snap the ball or not.

The notice is that if ball is on the ground but it cannot be snapped yet, the umpire will tell the snapper not to snap the ball.

Correct. Sometimes I hold up the snap because I'm waiting for others on the crew to get back to their positions. The RFP is essentially when I step back (Rule 2-2-4a: A dead ball is ready for play when with the 40-second play clock running, an official places the ball at a hash mark or between the inbounds marks and steps away to his position). I'll ask the QB to please give me a second or two to get out of harm's way but they technically can snap it as soon as I step back. It can be dangerous in the middle.

The U should be over the ball and prevent the snap.

It's rare that a team should be able to snap before a RFP. Makes me think the R is a little pokey in that aspect of the game. We don't need the full chains set to wind the clock. Spot on a yard line, get the box man close enough to get the yard line verbally by the H (assuming you have a good chain crew), and go. A good box man will realize he's the key and will hustle to the H's spot and the chains can fill in afterwards.

Spoken like someone who has never been on the field. What a load of nonsense.

Next Saturday, find a team that runs the hurry up and watch the umpire.

Sorry, no time to watch stuff played by NCAA, coaching our own game. In fact, the last time I watched a game played by NCAA, this sort of thing was R's responsibility, not U's.

Fair enough, but if you've not seen an NCAA game in recent memory, perhaps suggesting that the NCAA has problems with a particular rule is not really in your wheelhouse.

Also ... I don't believe the R has spotted the ball in the NCAA in the last ... um ... ever.

Depends on the crew... the mechanics manual says that either the R or the U can spot the ball, although in practice most crews I've seen/worked with let the U spot the ball in almost every situation. The main exception seems to be on a sack with a large loss of distance (15+ yards); then a lot of times the R will spot the ball before the U gets there.

Ever is a long time. For a very long time that was strictly R's responsibility--starting with when they stopped having team A's snapper put the ball down at the linesman's spot. But it's good they gave that to U, who had more free time once subs stopped having to report to him--and even more free time in 5+ crews when they gave the 25 sec. clock to the BJ.

My 1939 rulebook (the earliest I've been able to find ... I collect these) doesn't say one way or another (no mechanics section at all). My 1947 book has a brief mechanics section but doesn't include this, and in the rule it just says "the official". Ditto 1949 and 1952. 1955 specifies spotting the ball as a duty of the umpire.

Does anyone have a copy (or link to) the Waynesburg / Fordham game in 1939 - we could look and see.

In any case, I would still hope you might refrain from saying the NCAA has a problem with a rule since you've not seen a game in quite a while. Maybe?

There is still a brief time where the U has to back off and when I was the WH on my crew, I gave the U time to get into a safe place. Sometimes teams do not listen and snap the ball anyway. Sometimes players just do not listen to our warnings to "not snap the ball."

Peace

Well, found some video of Pitt/Fordham from 1937.

Pitt at Fordham Football 1937 Polo Grounds (Part One) - YouTube

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/rAhIoVhW93Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Edit: Or perhaps better yet, Princeton/Yale from 1910. Watch about 30 seconds into the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcfoKTjHhIA

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/NcfoKTjHhIA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Looks like the official in the backfield spots the ball (and winds the clock).

Once the umpire backs off, they can snap it. Especially when they are time crunched.

Well not how it is taught to do here. The RFP is just that, the RFP. I the officials are not ready, we do not blow the whistle in. And that is why we often are talking to the QB and snapper to wait until we have blown the whistle. Not much different from what we do on a kick off. Just because we start going off the field does not mean it is OK to kick the football.

Peace

He's in Texas so he's talking NCAA rule. With the 40-second play clock on many downs, the ball is ready for play when the ball is spotted and the U moves away. I do ask that they give me a second to get out, but by rule as soon as I step away they can snap it.

We're talking about the NCAA - there is no RFP.

Interesting way to mark a field in the Chicago-Michigan clip.

That's why they call it a "gridiron"

No, it was called that before the lengthwise lines were added -- actually even before the crosswise lines were put down. When it was proposed to the rules committee for the 1882 season that lines be added every 5 yards to judge the line to gain, I forgot who said it would look like a gridiron. The lengthwise lines came in decades later with some rules restricting the advance of the ball by run or pass. The field could use them again, to judge the FBZ by.

They could've eliminated half the yard lines in 1912 when the distance to gain was increased to 10 yds., but they haven't. Heck, a lot of fields were still marked with an X at the center of the 40 yd. lines for many decades after the kickoff was no longer required to be from its center.

Bob, Robert would know. It was there in 1882. :D

Whadda mean, "were"? A majority of the fields I call on still have the X.

Not true in this scenario. You would have a ready for play due to the first down.

REPLY: I was at an inter-conference game (Big-10 vs. ACC) earlier this season. A Big-12 crew was officiating. I was surprised to see the R spot the ball several times. I couldn't figure out the rhyme or reason for him to spot it.

Big 12 crew ... were they using the "A" official?

Could it be sweeps to the U's side, perhaps U was trailing, and R was simply closer?

Funny you mentioned this. I worked a spring game and got dinged for not spotting the ball enough at the R. The U on my normal crew would hit me if I tried to spot more. Is this a trend?

Sometimes a cooperative player may toss the dead ball to a Referee who happens to be closest, or even standing on, what proves to be the subsequent spot, does it really make sense for him to re-toss the ball to the umpire so he can spot the ball where the Referee is standing?

"no harm, no foul" can apply to things other than contact between players.

REPLY: No Mike...they weren't using the "A" official. In fact the L was Walt Coleman Jr. He looks like he's about 17 years old