Concussion Rule in Ohio
 

http://ohsaa.org/medicine/Concussion...eb2013_PPE.pdf


2. A change in the Return to Play (RTP) Protocol prohibiting any student who has been removed from a
practice or a competition by a coach or a contest official to return to that practice or competition on that
same day. RTP will be permitted thereafter (meaning no earlier than the next day) only with written
authorization by a physician, either an M.D. or D.O. If a Board of Education or other governing board
wishes to authorize another licensed health care provider such as an athletic trainer, to perform this
authorization, the provider must be acting in consultation with a physician (M.D. or D.O), pursuant to a
referral from a physician, in collaboration with a physician, or under the supervision of a physician. A form
for your use has been revised and will be posted on the website and shared with all coaches and officials
when it becomes operational on April 26, 2013.

Are there any other states where if the officials send a kid off for suspected concussion symptoms he is done for the day?

NCHSAA FAQ
24. Q: In order to participate after a suspected head injury or confirmed concussion, what must happen?


A: Student must be immediately removed from the practice/contest and the school/athletic trainer/physician must follow the Gfeller-Waller Return to Play protocols. The GF-W RTP form must be completed and signed off on by a licensed M.D. or D.O. prior to returning to competition or practice.

Are there any other states that have enacted this as law like Ohio has?

When this rule started I remember California doing the same thing. A new Indiana state law says if the medical person suspects a concussion, he's done for the day regardless if those symptoms go away.

We had a play a couple years ago where our R suspected a concussion and the guy did look to be staggering. Turns out he only lost his mouthpiece and was trying to find it. We had already removed him so he was cleared by their medical professional.

If this had been in California or Ohio he would be done for the day on our error.

great idea to have people who are not medical professionals, nor familiar with the behaviors of the players making decisions about excluding them from the game. "I don't know your kid, so I don't know how he normally acts. I also, am not a medical professional, but I think he can't play 10% of his season. (1 game) Oh, and by the way, the people that do know your kid (parent, coach) and the medical professionals (doctor, trainer) can do nothing about it.

This opens us up to litigation, IMO. If any of us are slow to pull the trigger, we'll be criticized and maybe sued. If we're quick to pull the trigger, we'll be criticized and maybe even sued.

If a player's normal demeanor is slurred speech, disoriented, confused, etc........then he has no business being out there in the first place. In the unlikely event that this is normal, (it's not normal) the coach should alert us to this prior to the game.

I don't really think this is an issue, at least in Ohio. No one's asking officials to diagnose anything - all the law says is that if you see signs or symptoms that *may* be consistent with a concussion, hold them out and have them see a qualified medical professional who can clear them. Not same day, admittedly, but it can be as soon as the next day. And the law explicitly offers immunity from liability unless there is willful or wanton misconduct. Doesn't mean you won't get sued but it's a pretty high barrier to beat for judgment.

In our state, we are to remove the player & tell the head coach that we observed signs of possible concussion. After that, it's completely out of our hands.

Of all the following people: parent, doctor, trainer or coach, the official is the least appropriate to decide whether a player can play due to head injury. This might be the single most ridiculous piece of legislation I have ever read. If I am wise enough to overrule a brain surgeon, why am I only making sixty bucks a game?

All our state does is ask us to remove players from the game if they have concussion like symptoms. After that, a Medial Health Care Professional makes an evaluation. And those have to be designated by schools by law. And if they feel they do not have issues, they can allow them back in the game. We basically stay out of it other then report the incidents that take place to the State and the schools have to deal with the fall out. BTW, this is also a state law that the IHSA helped come up with so the schools take on the responsiblity legally more then we do.

It must be noted that many concussion symptoms are also symptoms of other things as well. I think Ohio is going to have a lot of kids taken out of games for other symptoms that clearly could be other things if this is on the officials to decide who comes out of the game.

Peace

Maybe, but in about five years, I expect there to be some lawsuits (maybe even some successful ones).

And there is the rub. Let's take the opinion of the guy who watched a video over the guy who graduated from medical school.

I guess this is not enforced in State Finals. Mentor QB hit hard in helmet, left very groggy, returned and finished the game.

Mentor 3-2 at Moeller14 5-C. Krizancic rush for 12 yards to the MOELLER2, 1ST DOWN MENTOR (6-Sam Hubhard).
Mentor 1-G at Moeller02 5-C. Krizancic rush for 1 yard to the MOELLER1 (93-Robby Pohlman).
Mentor 2-G at Moeller01 Timeout Mentor, clock 00:52.
Mentor 2-G at Moeller01 40-Eddie Daugherty at QB for Mentor.
Mentor 2-G at Moeller01 44-Alex Mathews rush for loss of 2 yards to the MOELLER3 (11-Chalmer Frueauf;44-Kole Shade).
Mentor 3-G at Moeller03 5-C. Krizancic at QB for Mentor.
Mentor 3-G at Moeller03 5-C. Krizancic pass complete to 40-Eddie Daugherty for 3 yards to the MOELLER0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 00:44.
39-Mike Muzic kick attempt good.

Yawn.....

You weren't on the field, so all you are doing is guessing..... It just might be the correct guess, but it's still a guess.

And you know he was very groggy by......a) being there talking to him?
b) Heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend?
c) Super duper Aquaman-like telepathic communication?
d) Watched it on STO and heard an announcer in the booth tell you on your telly.

Least appropriate in what respect? All the other people you mention are partial and have a rooting interest in keeping a potentially injured player in the game. The only impartial people on the field are the officials, and the law requires them to err on the side of safety.

That said, I don't like its implementation either. I don't want to defend a bad law, but the problem with it is not its rationale.

As for lawsuits, meh. Ohio's law doesn't increase our risk exposure significantly. When a player gets injured and the parents decide to sue, the lawyers will name every adult within reach: coaches, school administrators, the school board, the state athletic association, the officials on the field, and anyone else they can think of. You throw that stuff at everyone and see where it might stick.

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw him pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

This same concern comes up regularly warning about all sorts of calamities, but the bottom line is that not a whole lot, if anything, has changed, other than we're asked, and therefore expected, to be more vigilant.

NFHS 3-5-10 covers our responsibilities. The key phrase is in 3-5-10-a; "An apparently injured player is discovered by a game official.......sets the tone. Recognizing we are NOT medical professionals, the bar for generating concern, is set rather low. "Apparently injured" doesn't require a lot of diagnostic expertise and seems more a "common sense" guide.

For whatever reason, if an official doesn't like the way a player acts, behaves looks or otherwise raises concern for a players physical condition, he is authorized and encouraged to remove the player from the contest for evaluation by a medical professional, who will render a diagnosis and is responsible to decide if that player is medically fit to continue participating.

If in what should be a [U]"rare" exception [/U]the player authorized to return, continues to raise an officials concern, he is authorized to require reevaluation, to the point where concern is eliminated. Could that lead to overly anxious abuse? Possibly, but extremely doubtful.

In what should be the rarest of circumstances, where for some reason an official seriously rejects the medical decision of the designated medical personnel, can the official insist on additional clarification? Being right isn't always easy, but if there is serious enough concern, being right is correct

3-5-10-b focuses on symptoms common to "Concussions" and calls for additional scrutiny by officials and enhanced reactions to have a suspected player observed quickly, and raises the requirements for the player returning. Once again, if a player is certified to return, and continues to exhibit symptoms alarming an official, he is authorized to refer the player for additional evaluation.

The bottom line, sometimes difficult to remember is that we are charged with acting responsibly about the potential health and well being of children. Even after staying in a Holiday Inn Express, we are not medical professionals and in all but the absolute rarest of circumstances, should the medical professionals responsible for the game we are officiating, somehow, be unable to relieve our medical concerns and persuade us that their expertise is superior to our concerns, we should do what's right.

At some point early in this dispute, I would suggest seeking guidance from crew members to help evaluate your concerns.

However, the rules are overridden by the law in Ohio. An apparently concussed player may not participate further that day regardless of medical evaluation and may only return after that day after being cleared by a doctor. I didn't see the game in question, but if you can tell from the video or the stands that a player was apparently concussed, it seems likely that the law was broken. If that is the case, the coaches and the officials could find themselves in some legal trouble.

How can anyone watching a video (or watching from the stands) know what an official personally observed? How can anyone watching a video (or watching from the stands) know what a coach, doctor, or trainer personally observed or what communication took place between the parties involved?

The law in Ohio pertains to once a player is sent out. What happens before he is sent out is no different than anywhere else. If we observe the behavior, signs or symptoms, we send them out. If someones else observes the same, they sit them out.

Nobody can tell without a doubt what truly took place on that field/sideline.

No, the Ohio law starts with the duty to send him out. It also requires a certain level of training in regards to recognizing the apparent symptoms of a concussion.

If apparent symptoms of a concussion are obvious enough that they are observable from video, it at least suggests either a certain amount of willful blindness to those symptoms or an inadequate amount of situational awareness by those on the field and the sidelines. Either of these puts those involved in danger of effective legal action.

You don't have to be able to tell without a doubt what happened. The relevant standard is going to be the preponderance of the evidence.

Anyone who saw him attended to by the trainers and saw him come out of the game, could see he was being checked for concussion type symptoms. Did he have a concussion, I have no idea, was there a question of his injury? yes. Doesn't the rule say if anyone removes him from the game for possible concussion, he is done for the day?

I don't agree with the rule or like it but it is State Law.

I would agree that any symptom that would cause a trainer to do a concussion assessment would by law end participation for the day.

I also don't like the law.

High school football: Mentor falls to Cincinnati Moeller in state championship game

Krizancic was knocked out of the game briefly in the late going, but returned for the last touchdown pass to Daugherty. He was noticeably wobbly after the game as he walked with quarterbacks coach Nes Janiak and his father, boys basketball coach Bob Krizancic, from the field.
“He’s OK. He got a little dinged up,” Trivisonno said of Krizancic. “He played his tail off. He had a great game. (Moeller) didn’t stop him, either.”
Moeller looked to be in decent shape when Ragland plowed in from the 1 late in the third quarter for a 48-22 lead.


Guys, I am pretty sure I saw them use Smelling Salts! My son even commented on it as we watched the game.

Someone should tell the writer of the article to use a different term, knocked out sounds like Boxing!
:o

The duty to send him out is only kicks in when the official observes the symptoms. (or coach, trainer, doctor, administrator...etc)

What you saw may be different than what an official saw.

In the end, you may be 100% correct that the player was concussed. However you cannot prove what anyone saw with their own eyes.

http://ohsaa.org/medicine/Concussion...eb2013_PPE.pdf

Isn't that the reasoning behind all the concussion recognition training??

Aren't all these adults supposed to be trained to see such things??

Isn't that the gist of this legislation??



Thank you for all that you do and have been doing to provide education to your coaching staff, parents and students
regarding the prevention, recognition and management of concussions and head injuries. For the last two years, the
OHSAA has been at the forefront of the rules writing and education process to respond to this critical health issue
that can have a devastating impact on our student-athletes. We will continue that mission to protect our students and
all those who work in the interscholastic athletics arena.


Interpretations
Concussions
The last two (2) years the NFHS has been clear in its emphasis on concussion management. The NFHS Rules Power Points have all highlighted this, and the SUGGESTED GUIDELINES FOR MANAGEMENT OF CONCUSSION is included as an appendix in all rule books. There is a new North Carolina state law that mandates how athletes are to be treated by appropriate athletic training and licensed medical personnel. I am giving you this information as a re-emphasis on the seriousness regarding concussions and our responsibilities as officials. Coaches are also being reminded regarding the guidelines of return-to-play procedures they must follow before allowing the athlete to return to the contest.

As an official, if you observe or sense an athlete may be compromised, you are to guide/indicate (to) the athlete and the head coach to remove the athlete from the contest for them to “take a look” at the athlete. At that time, your responsibility for the athlete is complete. You are not a trained medical person who is responsible for diagnosing concussions. But, we do want you to be aware of the symptoms which may indicate an athlete has sustained a concussion (defined as a traumatic brain injury that interferes with normal brain function). The symptoms as listed by the NFHS Rules are as follows:

Headache
Fogginess
Difficultly concentrating
Easily confused
Slowed thought process
Difficulty with memory
Nausea
Lack of energy, tiredness
Dizziness, poor balance
Blurred vision
Sensitive to light and sounds
Mood changes—irritable, anxious, or tearful
Appears dazed or stunned
Confused about assignment
Forgets plays
Unsure of game, score or opponent
Moves clumsily
Answers questions slowly
Loses consciousness
Shows behavior or personality changes

I have no idea what the officials saw or what the actual symptoms or signs were. If a player is down and is surrounded by trainers, coaches, etc., I'm not going over there and poking my nose in to see if he might possibly be exhibiting signs or symptoms of a concussion. If I see them, I'll fulfill my duties under the law. But if the trainers are attending to the kid, then I'm not looking and I'm not seeing. The law's on them too.

Frankly, I think the concern over the OH law is much ado about nothing.

Agreed....

It has more to do with "training" and return to play procedures/reporting than what's observed on the field.

I'm not trying to prove what they saw. I'm saying that if symptoms of a concussion are apparent from the stands and are not observed by the crew, the term negligence comes to mind. That's not a term you want to hear when you have a legal obligation.

Of course, the greater responsibility under the law would be held by the trainer who saw enough of an apparent concussion symptom to give a concussion assessment yet failed to do his legal duty to prevent the player from returning.

I can't see into someone's eyes from the stands.
I can't determine whether or not a player is confused from the stands.
I can't hear whether or not a player says his head hurts from the stands.
I can't hear the doctor or trainers questions from the stands.
I can't hear the answers from the stands

The list goes on.....

No way you are proving negligence from the stands.

I do not feel the officials are to be held accountable here. I think the RTP protocol is 100% on the head coach of the school that put him back in the game. That is who the memo was sent to basically. He works for the AD and Principal and they are all at fault if this protocol was broken.



http://www.ohsaa.org/medicine/Concus...egulations.pdf


RETURN TO PLAY PROTOCOL
If a student is removed from practice or competition due to a suspected concussion or head injury,
the coach or referee who removes the student shall not permit the student, ON THE SAME DAY THE
STUDENT IS REMOVED, to return to that practice or competition or to participate in any other
practice or competition for which the coach or contest official is responsible. Thereafter, which
means no earlier than the next day, the coach or contest officials shall not permit the student to return
to practice or competition until both of the following conditions are satisfied:
1) The student’s condition is assessed by either of the following:
a. A physician, who is a person authorized under Chapter 4731 of the Ohio
Revised Code (OCR) to practice medicine and surgery or osteopathic
medicine or surgery (M.D. or D.O.)
b. Any other licensed health care provider that the school district board of
education or other governing authority of a chartered or non-chartered
nonpublic school, authorizes to assess the student who has been removed
from practice or competition.
2) The student receives written authorization that it is safe for the student to return to
practice or competition from a physician or other licensed health care provider authorized
to grant the clearance. Click here http://ohsaa.org/medicine/AuthorizationToReenter.pdf
to retrieve the OHSAA’s Medical Authorization to Return To Play (RTP) form.

http://www.ohsaa.org/medicine/sports...sion_Resources

http://www.ohsaa.org/members/Memos/2013-08-30.pdf

or maybe not!

3. Concussion:When a player has signs*or*symptoms*of*a*concussion*he*is*suspended*
from*the*game*and*may*not*reenter*the*game.**This* is*based*upon*Ohio*House*Bill*143.**
If*an*Ohio*Team*plays*a*game*in*another*state,*thi s*Rule*applies.**If*an*out*of*state*team*
plays*a*game*in*Ohio,*this*Rule*applies.**This*is* because*it*is*a*state*law*now.*


Go to the 8:25 mark, the hit and then the helmet on the turf caused him to be taken out of the game.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/dwzcHq-2Tl8?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Least appropriate in that we do not know the kid, so we don't have a baseline of knowledge on what "unusual" behavior is. Parents and coaches do have this knowledge. We have not received medical training similar to a trainer or doctor.

The underlying theme of this law is that we can't trust parents, coaches, trainers or doctors to protect our kids; and, therefore, we will put the duty on officials who have no expertise in either (a) the child (b) or concussion.

You one-upped Zapruder on this clip.

only video I could find of the game. It doesn't show the smelling salts.

Do trainers even use smelling salts anymore?

It doesn't show the symptoms or behaviors associated with a concussion either.

He had to be helped off the field. You think he got hit in the nuts?

I had a guy once taken off the field in a squad after getting hit in the nuts.

If observing from the stands was the criteria, the coaches in the press box would be held responsible observing and identifying the behaviors or symptoms.

They aren't for a reason.......

. He was noticeably wobbly after the game as he walked with quarterbacks coach Nes Janiak and his father, boys basketball coach Bob Krizancic, from the field.
“He’s OK. He got a little dinged up,” Trivisonno said of Krizancic. “He played his tail off. He had a great game. (Moeller) didn’t stop him, either.”

Written by a guy that wasn't on the field.....

Keep trying though, it's entertaining:rolleyes:

"Unusual" behavior is not among the signs or symptoms of concussion listed in this post.

It is not about trust, it's about what happens to people with a rooting interest, who tend to see what they want to see. This is a well-known, well-documented psychological phenomenon called confirmation bias.

Being "noticeably wobbly" is imho an apparent symptom of a concussion, namely dizziness/poor balance. That this was dismissed as "dinged up" tells you all you really need to know about the team's commitment to the player's health and their observation of the law.

And though there's a chance this was a late onset symptom, it's likely that he was displaying this symptom during the game if he was still displaying after the game.

The problem is officials should not be making these decisions in the first place. For one there are times when we do not even see players actually leave the field. We have other responsibilities and often are not looking that closely at every player and this law just clearly does not understand the thought process of officials in a game. And only coaches, trainers, teammates and parents would know what a player is doing before, during and after a game to know if something is truly wrong.

Peace

The legislature passed a law that subordinates the decision of a doctor, trainer, coach or parent to that of an official who watched a video.

You infer that the cause was noble. Was there an epidemic of doctors and trainers putting clearly concussed players back in games under the NFHS rule that necessitated a change in Ohio law.

I just want to point out that the Ohio law does not require an official to keep a removed athlete from returning to competition unless he/she removed them from the contest in the first place (or had knowledge that the player was removed by somebody else for that reason).

I don't think the General Assembly is expecting the officials to know that a coach removed a player for a possible concussion and then sent him back in the game. But, if the official suspects a concussion and has the player removed, that official (and I hope the rest of the crew, whom he should have told) does have a legal duty to see that he stays off the field.

I skimmed over the last page of comments or so in this thread. And I'm not sure anybody has actually said that the officials should have removed him. Bigjohn's beef seems to be against the coaching staff/trainers, which make me wonder why he's posting about it here.

Probably not, but you know how politicians are...they "have to do something" about the issue of the day.

And it's not just NFHS games. This law applies to every level of youth sports, from the YMCA 4-year-old programs to the Varsity high school level. (Which now makes me wonder if my son's volunteer coach and official did the required CDC or NFHS concussion training last fall).

Because the rules and laws and memos from the DOD all seem to say that the officials ARE responsible for not letting a kid return to play that day, if anyone removed him, for what appear to be head injury, concussion like symptoms. It was clear when watching the game live on TV, never said I was in the stands, that the kid was dinged. Meaning he was a bit groggy. He came back in a threw a TD and played and appeared to be OK. The point is, he WAS removed for concussion symptoms and the rule and state law say he should be done for the day. He was not.

Who is at fault?

If what you are saying is true, than this is really not the place to post this honestly. If you claim officials are not expected to take players out of the game, than what the hell does that have to do with us here? We are not for the most part coaches or trainers. And BJ is making it sound like the officials were not dong their job, that is what he does here. And if the law is clear, there seems to be a lot of confusion as to what role officials actually play. I have no problem with a concussion policy, just do not put the officials as the main people responsible for what is noticed for symptoms of a medical condition. Once again the public thinks we have special powers because we have a stripped shirt on our back.

Peace

I don't think the law does put the officials as "the main people" responsible. They are, however, some of the people responsible. I guess I see it more as a shared responsibility.

It doesn't matter whether it is a coach or an official, whomever sees the concussion symptoms had a responsibility to remove the athlete and keep them from returning.

Unless you have knowledge that an official was the one who removed the athlete for a possible concussion, you're posting on the wrong forum.

Does the R have a responsibility to ask the trainer, "was he removed for head injury/concussion symptoms?"
For this rule to have any validity, I think he does.

This was sent to all coaches and officials. When a player is suspended, that is the R's duty to enforce, don't you think?

http://www.ohsaa.org/members/Memos/2013-08-30.pdf

What if the R has not idea why a player is removed from the game?

Once again you are asking the wrong people to be responsible for something that could easily take place without their knowledge. This is not basketball or soccer where every substitution is made with the direct supervision of the officials. Football players leave or enter the field anytime they get ready and often officials are making sure they have 11 on a side.

Peace

Yeah, well the reason everyone has had this class on concussion signs and symptoms are so he can see just that and implies that he should recognize when a player is being checked out on the field and notice this woosiness and wobbly appearance as he is being helped from the field by the trainer. This should be enough for him to decide that the coach should be informed that #5 is ineligible for the remainder of the day and can not return to play until cleared by proper medical authority as is stated in the release form I posted. Read #3, this is being sent to all officials and coaches and is clear that the player is suspended.

Having a class has nothing to do with recognizing if a player left the field for a concussion or concussion like symptoms. The player might be 50 yards downfield and the Referee might not even see the player go off the field. The Referee is concentrating on the line and the QB, not receivers downfield or even secondary players. So taking a class is not going to change that fact. Unless you want the official to ball watch, which they do not do. And this is why you have no idea how little sense this makes to require one official who is not watching all areas of the field just under their mechanics to know if a player has left the field for some kind of concussion.

Peace

Highlights of the OHSAA Concussion Policy :: Nationwide Children's Hospital


What is the role of contest officials in administering the rule?

Officials are to review and know the signs and symptoms of concussion and to direct immediate removal of any athlete who displays these signs or symptoms.
An official shall not permit the athlete who has been removed under this rule to return to competition without written medical authorization presented to the head official.
If a contest official is aware that a student has been permitted to return to competition without written authorization from a physician or licensed athletic trainer, that official shall immediately stop play and remove that student from competition and report the incident to the Ohio High School Athletic Association
Note that officials are not medical professionals and have no authority to determine whether or not student has sustained a concussion. The official is responsible for directing removal when he or she observes signs and symptoms that may indicate a student is concussed.

BJ,

You can keep quoting organizations that are not officials, that does not change the fact that the Referee is not going to be personally aware of all players and their conditions unless you drastically change the primary coverage areas of the Referee. And then ask the Referee to roaming the field and not watching line play or the QB/passer in order to only recognize plays and hits they are not already watching.

Peace

You mean the R can't watch as the trainers come on to the field and help a groggy, wobbly kid get off the field. Why in the hell not?????

Keep trying John....

A player is on the bench, complains that his head hurts, is evaluated by a MD who tells the HC said player is done due to the concussion protocol.

Nobody tells the officials.......

Said player "feels better" and enters the field after a change of possession (after he talked to an assistant) and participates in the next series......

How is the official responsible if he's not notified?

And again......how do you know what the trainer /doctor observed when he/she was on the filed attending to the player?

You don't know...... stop guessing !!

Because they diagnose.

We do not.....

Have the time I have no idea who the trainers are. Not all schools have them and not all introduce themselves to the officials. And at least here it is not required for trainers to talk to officials before or during games.

Peace

The QB couldn't even make it to the post game interview but he's OK.

Mentor's Conner Krizancic, Moeller's Gus Ragland shine in Division I state football championship game - cleveland.com

He's a high school quarterback. Does Ohio have a requirement that teenagers talk to the press?

Exactly, and I'm not interjecting myself into a place where my opinion is neither helpful nor educated. If I see an accident on the side of the road, I'll stop and help: unless the police are already on the scene.

This is getting ridiculous...do you seriously think an R from 20 yds away is going to run over to the huddle of trainers and demand to know why exactly the kid is going off the field? Because if he doesn't do that, there's very little chance the R would know he's "groggy, wobbly". The player is under the care of trainers and coaches at that point, there's absolutely no need to get involved. And how do you determine "groggy, wobbly" from a distance when they're almost assuredly walking to the sidelines away from you with their backs to you? There are probably 30 injuries that could make a person wobbly. How do you see "groggy" from 20 yds away, a kid walking away from you, probably with helmet still on, surrounded by trainers? I think you've made the premise that he was groggy and argued the point from there, begging the question.

I don't know why you've latched on to this so strongly, but it's far from the 'officials as concussion police' you're making it out to be. It's much simpler - if you observe these things, send the kid to a Dr. If you don't observe them - don't. In doing about 50 games as well as numerous baseball games, along with talking with colleagues, this simply has not been an issue.

I am not the only one that saw this!

Controversy breaks out over concussion rule, on field officials fail to act to protect player. - JJHuddle.com

Here is a TWEET from the QB's Brother!

http://www.jjhuddle.com/forums/filed...hotoid=1113945

It does not matter what others saw from the TV or from the stands. What matters is that the officials who have other responsiblities are not taking over in situations where trainiers and medical personnel are present. Officials have many other responsiblities than what happens with one kid. And certain not going to go over and ask medical people why someone is taken out. I have never done such a thing in all my years and would not start even with a law.

And it is actually telling that you cannot answer anyone directly as to why an official would start doing something they have never done before.

Peace

http://ohsaa.org/medicine/Concussion...otocol0111.pdf

there is the protocol, it is clear!

4. What is the role of contest officials in administering the new rule?
 Officials are to review and know the signs and symptoms of concussion and to direct immediate removal of any athlete who
displays these signs or symptoms,

 An official shall not permit the athlete who has been removed under this rule to return to competition without written medical
authorization presented to the head official.
 If a contest official is aware that a student has been permitted to return to competition without written authorization from a
physician or licensed athletic trainer, that official shall immediately stop play and remove that student from competition and report
the incident to the Ohio High School Athletic Association
 Note that officials are not medical professionals and have no authority to determine whether or not student has sustained a
concussion. The official is responsible for directing removal when he or she observes signs and symptoms that may indicate a
student is concussed.

I do not care what the protocol is or isn't. The protocol that asks officials to go out of their way to be apart of an observation of a concussion is stupid. Even in my state we are only responsible for what we observe. If we do not observe anything, we are not responsible for taking a player out of the game. And then the law in our state puts the responsibility on the people that can make a decision and that is the medical personnel. They can even send back in a player if a player has been shown to not have a concussion. They do not put this on the officials to do anything but make the medical personnel aware of a possible situation. And the state trusts and puts their liability in the people that have the training to come to that conclusion. There were a lot of times a kid has gone off the field and we had no idea why. That is the way it should be. I do not care what the stupid protocols in your state say if they are not realistic in the first place. And if the only way anyone knows this kid played with a concussion was by what was stated after the game or what was observed on the sidelines, that is the hole in that law clearly.

Peace

The rule says err on the side of caution! If it appears the player has any concussion like symptoms, he is done for the remainder of that day. That is all.

It is clear, and yet you keep misrepresenting it. *IF* the officials are aware, then they send him off. NO WHERE in that protocol or in the law or in the training or ANYWHERE ELSE does it state that the officials have an active obligation to insert themselves and check on the actions of others such as trainers or coaches. Officials are NOT responsible to ensure that others follow the law, only that if THEY are aware of a situation then they take action. It doesn't say that officials have a reasonable duty to be aware at all times - quite the contrary actually. Only if they personally observe signs or symptoms themselves.

Go find the message board for coaches and trainers in that area - your beef is with them.

As usual, you are wrong...... the reasons are in red above...

Your observations are just that, yours, and have no relevance to anything that happened on the field...

If it appears to those who are empowered.......

Not you

You guys are hilarious, the kid laid on the ground for 5 minutes. He clearly was dinged. the nature of the hit should have drawn attention or the fact that he had to be helped off the field and they weren't checking any limbs!

Be real guys. It was clear that he was removed for possible head injury/concussion symptoms and that is all the rule says get him suspended for the day! That message from the DOD clearly says that and the protocol says all adults are responsible for enforcing the rule and not breaking the LAW!!!!

I can tell you have not been coaching very long or at a high level, because players lay on the ground for all kinds or reasons that have nothing to do with a concussion or a head injury of any kind. And when a player is on the ground, I am not often looking for what they are checking in detail. Sometimes we are worried about communication other information to crew members and sometimes talking to coaches about issues they want addressed or had asked about earlier in the contest. A lot of time the player is not even our only concern when they are down on the ground and medical personnel are over the situation.

And the fact you have never officiated and never had to make these decision shows how ignorant you are to these matters. And players come in and out of games all the time without officials knowing why, even when they are injured. And depending on where a player is injured, that can be more of evidence of how an official would not know why a player is being attended to. No one is saying that the officials could not ever see these things, but it is understandable to those that officiate why it was not seen. And if the only evidence was assumed because of interviews, that shows you a lot of why you have no idea what happens. And that does not include that I am sure TV played a role in when to get back to play and other issues that happen at a State Final that are distractions to working a game normally.

Peace

Yeah, I am ignorant! Classic.

"Coach, that young man is showing signs of a concussion, per the new rules, he is done for the day."

Yeah that takes a lot of training!


Why attack me? I am totally aware of what should have happened in this situation.

Yes in the truest definition you are ignorant. You have never been an official and you are ranting about what should be done as if you know what this job involves. Yes you are ignorant. And it is not an attack to point that out to you when you keep insisting that what the officials should have done without knowing what they actually saw or did not see. Then you are making judgments based on post game comments that the officials should have seen something because someone said something in the post game wrap up or Tweets from fans.

Yes that is ignorant. ;)

I know I am ignorant to what is or what is not an actual signs of a concussion. I know how to stay in my lane, do you?

Peace

Funny thing you would ask that I have taught driver training for 6 years logging thousands of hours in the car with new drivers. I know my lanes!

I also know the rules and have been to many rules meetings and spent countless hours studying them and hundreds of hours in football games and thousands of hours in football practices. So to call me ignorant of the ways officials should call a football rule is really a stupid statement based on your own ignorance of my life and experiences. Get over yourself.

And your medical degree is in what?

Peace

REFS MAKE THE CALL

Under Ohio’s new concussion law, referees are charged with removing a player who exhibits signs and symptoms of concussion. Ohio’s law is the rare concussion law to name referees in this task.

Once a player is removed on suspicion of concussion, the athlete cannot return to play that same day even if medical personnel believe the player has not suffered a concussion.

“If we get down to the nitty gritty of the game and some stud player gets hurt and you direct them out, you’re going to take some abuse,” said Carl Davidson, who is beginning his 29th season as a football referee.

Lawmakers felt including referees in removing a player would add an extra layer of protection, as they are right there with some of the best vantage points to see a hard hit or symptoms of a concussion.


Friday Night Ohio

No, they removed him because play was stopped for him, and by rule he had to leave the game.

As for the reason...... You have no idea why. You didnt talk to the medical personnel on the field or on the sidelines.

You are guessing.... Why don't you admit that?

Not seeming to be much different than in NC, we send them off to be seen by the Approved Health Provider. Our burden has been met. If the AHP clears them, we're out of it.

I have been calling football since 1994. I have never went and analyzed a player lying on the ground. I blow my whistle, stop the clock, and call for the trainer. I have never once inserted myself into any discussion with the staff while a player has been attended to.

If I see a player up and around showing signs of a possible concussion, I will advise the coach that player needs looked at and whatever sign I observed that led me to that conclusion. It's his issue after that.

Guessing what, that the kid had been rocked and was wobbly? Thousands of people saw that, even the announcers said, hey, they better get out the smelling salts! It was clear to everyone watching that particular play that the player was showing signs of a concussion, surely the 5 guys on the field certified and trained to see such things could see it too! Even if they were guessing, by rule (and State Law!) the kid should have been done for the day!

You don't know the rules....and you don't know how rules are applied, you think everything is black and white....

That makes you ignorant on the rules.

Did you talk to the medical personnel while they evaluated the player?

Yes = lying
No = guessing

It doesn't matter what the medical staff thought, once he shows signs of any head injury, the rule says he is done! period, the officials are charged with making that call!!! That is what the new rule says.

The bolded part is where the officials' responsibility for observing the signs, symptoms, and behaviors kicks in.....

In this play, the officials should be aware that a player down for a while is back in the game so soon. If they don't observe anything unusual upon his return, they allow him to stay. If they observe the siggs, symptons or behaviors, they send him out.

IF THEY OBSERVE IT! You keep c&p'ing snippets out of context...NOTHING in this law, policy, training, interpretation, etc., requires or even suggests that officials should actively insert themselves into the actions of coaches and trainers. Indeed that's why THEY are covered as well.

So player is lying on the ground a few minutes....knee injury, wind knocked out, rib injury, potential neck injury, head injury, what? They all look the same if he's just lying there. He has to be helped up....wow, we've really narrowed it down now. The trainers are 20 yds away doing something...you think the officials are going to go running into that huddle and demanding what's up? Idiotic. They help the kid to the bench area...again, could be a hundred things.

Maybe it's time this dead horse gets locked.

Wrong. It's not solely on the officials.


Also, the rule makes no mention of an ex-coach or fan making the observation.

And once again, you're WRONG. The officials, coaches, AND medical staff are equally charged with enforcing the rule, based on what THEY individually observe. The officials are absolutely not held accountable for what the medical staff observes (and vice versa).

Agreed....

I'm done with people just making things up.

Actually there's a significant difference between being simply ignorant, and being, unfortunately, stupid.

Ignorance is usually caused by a simple lack of knowledge, which can be easily corrected by providing the knowledge necessary to elleviate the problem. Stupid is an entirely different matter, and at times can prove to be uncorrectable.

So it is stupid of me to think that 5 trained officials of Division 1 State Finals caliber should be able to see that a kid clearly was showing signs of a head injury and that the medical staff was checking to see if he was concussed?

I should not assume that any of them noticed that he was definitely wobbly and apparently woosy and probably had no idea where he crapped last. I should assume that they were carrying on with other duties that were much more important than this young man's health and that they are absolved of all fault because they have performed their duties with due diligence?

Run its course