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stiffler3492 Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:18pm

Change to PI?
 
Getting ready to broadcast the Week 1 game here in Wisconsin...

Was there a rule change to the pass interference penalty for this season...locally or nationally?

asdf Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:30pm

Under FED rules,

No longer an automatic first down for defensive pass interference. 15 yards from previous spot and replay the down. (could result in a first down with the enforcement)

No longer a loss of down for offensive pass interference. 15 yards from previous spot and replay the down.

JRutledge Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 903043)
Getting ready to broadcast the Week 1 game here in Wisconsin...

Was there a rule change to the pass interference penalty for this season...locally or nationally?

Not sure about what locally is a factor, but the National Federation changed the rule with DPI and OPI. No automatic first down or loss of down portions to those rules anymore. I think it sucks if you ask me.

Peace

stiffler3492 Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdf (Post 903046)
Under FED rules,

No longer an automatic first down for defensive pass interference. 15 yards from previous spot and replay the down. (could result in a first down with the enforcement)

No longer a loss of down for offensive pass interference. 15 yards from previous spot and replay the down.

Thanks. I never understood the logic behind a loss of down for OPI.

stiffler3492 Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 903048)
Not sure about what locally is a factor, but the National Federation changed the rule with DPI and OPI. No automatic first down or loss of down portions to those rules anymore. I think it sucks if you ask me.

Peace

What was the logic behind the loss of down on OPI??

JRutledge Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 903050)
What was the logic behind the loss of down on OPI??

To be honest, I have no freakin idea. I think some people felt it was too harsh, but to me those were silly concerns. Other then that it was stupid IMO.

Peace

stiffler3492 Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 903052)
To be honest, I have no freakin idea. I think some people felt it was too harsh, but to me those were silly concerns. Other then that it was stupid IMO.

Peace

I'm in the camp that thought it was too harsh. One or the other...not both.

asdf Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:48pm

One of many that make absolutely no sense.

JRutledge Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 903058)
I'm in the camp that thought it was too harsh. One or the other...not both.

Well the offense knows what they are doing on a pass route and the defense is reading and reacting to the play. OPI was rare even if it was called a lot more. It is just like basketball, we give the offense too much benefit for doing illegal things. I did not see the action as too harsh and felt it was appropriate, but that was OK to get rid of the loss of down portion rather then the first down part for DPI. That is going to be the problem. Now they are going to make what would be a normal call until a debate over other rules that are much more harsh (Intentional Interference, which did not go away).

Peace

w_sohl Wed Aug 21, 2013 01:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 903050)
What was the logic behind the loss of down on OPI??

My thinking is that, like JRut said, the offense knows what they are doing and typically when they commit PI it is intentional because of a bad throw. And the offense got an automatic first down so in the interest of equity they should lose a down whrn they commit.

I've heard rumblings that it will be changed back next season.

(Rule 10 in the book still says DPI results in an automatic first down. Editor missed that part.)

JRutledge Wed Aug 21, 2013 01:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by w_sohl (Post 903065)
I've heard rumblings that it will be changed back next season.

(Rule 10 in the book still says DPI results in an automatic first down. Editor missed that part.)

It was noted and corrected. I think in another part of the rule it just states it is a 15 yard penalty. Either way they clearly changed the rule.

Peace

bisonlj Wed Aug 21, 2013 01:47pm

No AFD on DPI will not become an issue often but we've had 2 potential issues in our first two scrimmages.

Scenario 1
1st and 10 at the B18. DPI called on incomplete pass. Next play was 1st and 1 at the B9. This was actually a benefit for the offense because they now had up to 8 plays to score from the 9 rather than 4.

Scenario 2
A was guilty of a FS on the previous snap so it was 2nd and 15. DPI was called so enforcement did result in a 1st down. But we had to think about how A ended up with 2nd and 15. If it was due to a play that lost yardage we would need to use a chain technique to determine if the enforcement would result in a 1st down.

stiffler3492 Wed Aug 21, 2013 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 903061)
Well the offense knows what they are doing on a pass route and the defense is reading and reacting to the play. OPI was rare even if it was called a lot more. It is just like basketball, we give the offense too much benefit for doing illegal things. I did not see the action as too harsh and felt it was appropriate, but that was OK to get rid of the loss of down portion rather then the first down part for DPI. That is going to be the problem. Now they are going to make what would be a normal call until a debate over other rules that are much more harsh (Intentional Interference, which did not go away).

Peace

Yeah, but the offensive line knows what's happening on a play, and they get called for holding, and no loss of down. I never understood the difference.

Oh well...water under the bridge (for now, at least)

JRutledge Wed Aug 21, 2013 06:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 903073)
Yeah, but the offensive line knows what's happening on a play, and they get called for holding, and no loss of down. I never understood the difference.

Oh well...water under the bridge (for now, at least)

Because the defense would get an automatic first down if they committed a foul.

Peace

Robert Goodman Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 903052)
To be honest, I have no freakin idea. I think some people felt it was too harsh, but to me those were silly concerns. Other then that it was stupid IMO.

And I'll remind people of the former loss of ball penalty that at least a couple major codes had for OPI. NCAA still had loss of ball for illegal use of hands during a loose ball until a little over 40 yrs. ago.

I think the penalties both ways are too light. What does PI do? Deprive the opponent of a chance for the ball and an additional run. When you consider what might've happened absent PI either way, it often pays to interfere. The only anomaly to that is the fact that restrictions for the passing team begin with the snap, so an OPI often isn't an effort to prevent an interception, so probably there should be 2 different types of fouls there, depending on whether the ball is thrown yet.

Even "spot of the foul" for DPI may not be generous enough. Consider when a deep pass is lobbed up for a receiver to run onto, but he's tackled from behind 30 yards upfield from where the ball comes down. Consider that rugby gives the choice of an enforcement spot of where the ball comes down in the analogous case of obstruction during a kick.

When Fed started writing its own rules, there was consideration given to awarding a TD for a foul such as DPI in the end zone. The contributor of a summary in their rules committee proceedings pointed out (over 70 yrs. ago) that the norm in NCAA rules of not awarding scores but only yardage arose at a time when TDs were rarer, and said it was time to reconsider. But it obviously didn't happen.


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