Change to PI?
 

Getting ready to broadcast the Week 1 game here in Wisconsin...

Was there a rule change to the pass interference penalty for this season...locally or nationally?

Under FED rules,

No longer an automatic first down for defensive pass interference. 15 yards from previous spot and replay the down. (could result in a first down with the enforcement)

No longer a loss of down for offensive pass interference. 15 yards from previous spot and replay the down.

Not sure about what locally is a factor, but the National Federation changed the rule with DPI and OPI. No automatic first down or loss of down portions to those rules anymore. I think it sucks if you ask me.

Peace

Thanks. I never understood the logic behind a loss of down for OPI.

What was the logic behind the loss of down on OPI??

To be honest, I have no freakin idea. I think some people felt it was too harsh, but to me those were silly concerns. Other then that it was stupid IMO.

Peace

I'm in the camp that thought it was too harsh. One or the other...not both.

One of many that make absolutely no sense.

Well the offense knows what they are doing on a pass route and the defense is reading and reacting to the play. OPI was rare even if it was called a lot more. It is just like basketball, we give the offense too much benefit for doing illegal things. I did not see the action as too harsh and felt it was appropriate, but that was OK to get rid of the loss of down portion rather then the first down part for DPI. That is going to be the problem. Now they are going to make what would be a normal call until a debate over other rules that are much more harsh (Intentional Interference, which did not go away).

Peace

My thinking is that, like JRut said, the offense knows what they are doing and typically when they commit PI it is intentional because of a bad throw. And the offense got an automatic first down so in the interest of equity they should lose a down whrn they commit.

I've heard rumblings that it will be changed back next season.

(Rule 10 in the book still says DPI results in an automatic first down. Editor missed that part.)

It was noted and corrected. I think in another part of the rule it just states it is a 15 yard penalty. Either way they clearly changed the rule.

Peace

No AFD on DPI will not become an issue often but we've had 2 potential issues in our first two scrimmages.

Scenario 1
1st and 10 at the B18. DPI called on incomplete pass. Next play was 1st and 1 at the B9. This was actually a benefit for the offense because they now had up to 8 plays to score from the 9 rather than 4.

Scenario 2
A was guilty of a FS on the previous snap so it was 2nd and 15. DPI was called so enforcement did result in a 1st down. But we had to think about how A ended up with 2nd and 15. If it was due to a play that lost yardage we would need to use a chain technique to determine if the enforcement would result in a 1st down.

Yeah, but the offensive line knows what's happening on a play, and they get called for holding, and no loss of down. I never understood the difference.

Oh well...water under the bridge (for now, at least)

Because the defense would get an automatic first down if they committed a foul.

Peace

And I'll remind people of the former loss of ball penalty that at least a couple major codes had for OPI. NCAA still had loss of ball for illegal use of hands during a loose ball until a little over 40 yrs. ago.

I think the penalties both ways are too light. What does PI do? Deprive the opponent of a chance for the ball and an additional run. When you consider what might've happened absent PI either way, it often pays to interfere. The only anomaly to that is the fact that restrictions for the passing team begin with the snap, so an OPI often isn't an effort to prevent an interception, so probably there should be 2 different types of fouls there, depending on whether the ball is thrown yet.

Even "spot of the foul" for DPI may not be generous enough. Consider when a deep pass is lobbed up for a receiver to run onto, but he's tackled from behind 30 yards upfield from where the ball comes down. Consider that rugby gives the choice of an enforcement spot of where the ball comes down in the analogous case of obstruction during a kick.

When Fed started writing its own rules, there was consideration given to awarding a TD for a foul such as DPI in the end zone. The contributor of a summary in their rules committee proceedings pointed out (over 70 yrs. ago) that the norm in NCAA rules of not awarding scores but only yardage arose at a time when TDs were rarer, and said it was time to reconsider. But it obviously didn't happen.

The difference is in not presuming a tackle would've occurred behind or at that spot due to the missed block, because the runner may have adjusted if he saw the situation develop.

However, the last NAGWS flag football rules I saw penalized 5 yds. & LD for blocking. So not all codes look at similar violations the same way.

A 10 or 15-yard penalty against the offense is often a series-breaker even if there is no loss of down. Add in the fact fouls by A behind the LOS punish them even more since the penalty is often enforced from that spot. The same distance against the defense has less of an impact. Trying to balance OPI and DPI has inherent unfairness built into it.

I disagree, because unless it was already 4th down, team A has the option to punt, or to otherwise adjust their play, on subsequent downs. Team B has no analogous way to mitigate their own loss of distance. As a coach and fan, distance penalties against the defense always seemed to me more consequential on avg. than those against the offense.

Consider the small but significant change in the game engendered by the adoption of post scrimmage kick enforcement. The choice of yardage tacked on against the team that becomes the defense is relatively attractive compared to repeating the previous down with a penalty against the same team as offense.

First down probability
 

I'm a little cornfused. Can someone with a statistics background better explain this chart?

Advanced NFL Stats: First Down Probability

I would think that break even is at 50%. Also, wish the graph had all the lines. I'm also assuming that .6 on the chart is 60%

The text explains; break-even is 66% (.66 on the chart), because the probability of a new series, given that you start with first-and-ten, is .66 - that is, in the NFL, a team gets a first down (or a TD) two thirds of the time when they start first and ten.

So if they gain 5 yards on first down, you look at second and five on the chart, which (if I'm reading it right) is about .7; we've gone up a little from .66, so that's a success; we're now more likely to get a first down than we were when we started.

However, if they throw an incomplete pass, it's now second and ten; that's something like .52 on the chart. They still are more likely than not to get a first down, but now it's less likely than it was on first down, so that play leaves them worse off (obviously). So that's below the break-even point.

What he means by "break-even" is: is this situation better or worse than first and ten?

We had DPI today on 3rd and 27. First time with the no rule. Nobody complained.