On a try

[bigjohn]

can A request the ball be moved to a hash, after the RFP? Would this require a time out?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

can A request the ball be moved to a hash, after the RFP? Would this require a time out?

If that request is supposed to be honored, then there's something wrong with the rules on readying the ball for play!

[IAUMP]

My experience is that the center normally knows where they want the ball and will request that it be moved prior to the ready. If they request it after the ready for play, then the Umpire should ignore the request. If a team has asked for it to be moved, I will ask them if they want it moved and avoid the whole problem.

[bigjohn]

ART. 2 . . . The try begins when the ball is marked ready for play. It ends when:
a. B secures possession.
b. It is apparent a drop kick or place kick will not score.
c. The try is successful.
d. The ball becomes dead for any other reason.


Can I buy a new spot with a time out though???

[goldsmi]

Nope.

From the Casebook:

4.3.6 SITUATION: Prior to the ready-for-play on a try, A’s captain requests the ball be placed on the right side hash mark. A then deploys in a spread formation.
(a) A1 does not like the defensive coverage and requests a time-out;
or (b) a dead-ball foul occurs. The captain of A then asks the referee to move the ball to a position midway between the uprights.
RULING: The request is denied in (a) and honored in (b). The captain may, in seven situations, ask that the ball be placed at a certain point between the hash marks. However, once spotted the ball may not be moved because of a second request. If a dead-ball foul occurs, or a foul occurs during the down and the penalty is accepted, the captain again will be given an opportunity to pick a spot for the replay. The request for placement of
the ball is permissible for a try or kickoff, after a safety, fair catch, awarded fair catch, touchback, or the start of each series, using the 10-Yard Line Overtime Procedure. (8-3-1)

[bigjohn]

Thanks!

[Ia-Ref]

A good practice is to ask every time there is a choice of where the ball will be put into play from prior to the ready-fo-play.
Do not assume the ball will be in the middle of the field.
As metioned prior, once the RTP has been sounded, the ball cannot be moved.

I do not want to run into the case where a coach says he was not given a choice and the ready-for-play has sounded.

Granted, most of the time the middle of the field will be ok. Just make sure by asking.

[goldsmi]

Actually, it is not the RFP. Once the ball is spotted it can not be moved.
In any case, always a good thing to ask.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by goldsmi

Actually, it is not the RFP. Once the ball is spotted it can not be moved.

That's interesting. I don't recall seeing the hair's being split between the spotting of the ball and the RFP before, but of course the latter must occur after the former. So what's the rules justif'n for saying it can't be moved even before the RFP if it's been spotted?

[goldsmi]

See my Casebook reference ^ a few posts.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by goldsmi

See my Casebook reference ^ a few posts.

I saw that but didn't think to take the word "spotted" so literally as referring to an act distinct from the entirety of readying the ball for play. Why do you?

[goldsmi]

The FED makes a distinction between 'spotting the ball' and RFP as evidenced in these unrelated Casebook cites:

*7.5.2 SITUATION G: In the last few seconds of a half, A1 completes a pass to
A2 at B’s 20-yard line. The ball is properly spotted and the referee marks it ready
for play and signals the clock to start. In the rush and confusion to stop the clock,
A’s snapper and quarterback A1 are the only A players in legal position when the
ball is snapped and legally “spiked” by A1. A foul for illegal formation occurs at
the snap.


10.1.1 SITUATION A: Where is the ball spotted following penalty acceptance
when it is snapped from the right-side hash mark and the run ends in the left-side
zone and the foul is: (a) illegal motion by A1; or (b) holding by A1 in the middle
of the field behind the end of the run; or (c) grasping the face mask/helmet opening
by B1 in making the tackle? RULING: In (a), it is spotted at the right-side hash
mark. In (b), it is spotted in the middle of the field since the enforcement spot was
the spot of the foul. In (c), it is spotted at the left hash mark.

It is reasonable to interpret that spotting the ball takes place prior to the RFP and is a separate activity.

[JKinGA29]

FWIW...I agree that there is a distinct difference between placing/spotting the ball and the RFP. However, if the team hasn't made a specific request, I don't see why we can't honor their request before RFP, even if the U has already placed the ball. It's definitely a good idea to ask before placing but if we place the ball in the middle without asking and the team then makes a request before the RFP, I don't see any reason why we can't move it.

[goldsmi]

...except for the fact that the rule says you can't.

[JKinGA29]

I must not be seeing it...what rule do you mean?