K advancing a muff

[Schultj]

In the case book, 5.1.3 Situation A, the ruling indicates that K can advance a muff if it is recovered behind the neutral zone. It does not explicitly say this for part B, when the ball is recovered by K past the neutral zone. If I read this correctly, muffs can't be advanced by K, but fumbles can. If this is the case, then I would think that the reasoning is similar to K downing a ball; when the ball is in control of K (touched/recovered), the ball is dead. Is this correct? I just want to be clear on this one.

[BktBallRef]

K can't advance a kick when the ball is recovered beyond the NZ. Even if the ball is muffed, the kick has not ended until someone possesses it.

[PSU213]

First, the kick doesn't end until someone possesses the ball (i.e. if R muffs it, it is still a kick).

For situation (a), K can catch or recover ANY scrimmage kick in or behind the neutral zone and advance. This applies even if the kick went beyond the NZ and then came back behind it. It also applies if R muffed the kick beyond the NZ and the ball bounced back behind the NZ (remember, the muff doesn't end the kick). Rule 6-2-3.

When K recovers a kick beyond the NZ the play ALWAYS becomes dead as soon as K recovers, as per rule 6-2-4. As for the specific case book play, K gets a new series in both (a) and (b) because if R is the first to touch the kick beyond the NZ, K will keep posession if they recover (no matter where K's recovery occurs). This is from rule 5-1-3f.

In the situation of a fumble, the kick has ended since a team has gained possession (there must be possession to have a fumble). This fumble is just like any other fumble, and may be recovered and advanced by anyone. Rule 7-4-2.

Hope this helps.

[Schultj]

Thanks for the help, I have that clear now. However, I have another PSK question. In rule 6 there is a mention of R having the choice between multipule first touchings to start a series. How can you have multipule first touchings?

[Mike Simonds]

Yes, you can.

Lets say K's ball 4th and 10 at K's 20 yard line. K's punt lands untouched by K or R at K's 49 yard line, takes a bounce back to K's 39 yard where it is muffed by K60, then bounces back to K's 45 yard line where K75 lands on it.

The multiple spots of K's first touching are the K 39 and K 45 yard lines. R has the choice of taking the ball first and 10 at either of the spots of first touching. Best choice would be R's ball 1st and 10 at K's 39 yard line.

[PSU213]

The definiton of first touching for a scrimmage kick is: "during a scrimmage kick it is first touching if the ball is touched by any kicker in the field of play and beyond the NZ expanded before it is touched there by R and before it has come to rest" (2-12-2).

In other words, first touching occurs each time K touches the ball beyond the NZ before R has touched it, and R would have the choice to take the ball at any of those spots where K touched the ball. Calling it "first touching" makes it a little confusing. As an example, if K1's kick bounces off of K2 R's 30 (beyond the NZ) and then is touched by K2 at R's 35 (beyond NZ, before coming to rest) R would have the choice of taking the ball at their 30 or 35. Of course if R1 picked up the ball and ran with it, R could choose the result of the play from there. Throwing penalties into the mix can make it more interesting.

[Edited by PSU213 on Jul 20th, 2003 at 08:11 PM]

[PSU213]

Mike, you beat me to it!

[Bob M.]

I can see why the words "first touching" might mislead someone to believe that there can only be one first touch. Then a second, then a third, etc. That could be why the NCAA refers to this situation as "illegal touching."

Bob M.