Referee Magazine August 2003 Football Test Questions on page 19

[jimmiececil]

I haven't received my books yet and do not know the rule changes. In questions 1 and 2 there is a live ball penalty on defense during a scoring play. According to the answers, the penalty is enforced on the try. Does anyone have knowledge of this rule change?

Also, question 4: R1 muffs a free kick at his own 11 yardline. He recovers the loose ball at his own three yardline and his momentum takes him into his own end zone, where he is downed. Choices:
a) Team K scores a safety
b) The ball was dead the moment it crossed the goalline
c) It will be team R's ball at its own three yardline.
d) It will be team R's ball at its own 20 yardline.

ANSWER according to Referee magazine: A

I would like to have responses about momentum rule on free kick and why it does not apply to this situation.

Thank for all responses.

[Edited by jimmiececil on Jul 15th, 2003 at 10:12 PM]

[AndrewMcCarthy]

Originally posted by jimmiececil
I haven't received my books yet and do not know the rule changes. In questions 1 and 2 there is a live ball penalty on defense during a scoring play. According to the answers, the penalty is enforced on the try. Does anyone have knowledge of this rule change?

This is indeed a change for 2003. But I don't have my books either! lol

yadda yadda yadda

I would like to have responses about momentum rule on free kick and why it does not apply to this situation.

Thank for all responses.

The momentum exception does not apply because the kick was not "caught" inside the 5, but rather it was "recovered". The exception applies to in-flight loose balls and not grounded loose balls. Fed 8-5-2a.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by AndrewMcCarthy

This is indeed a change for 2003. But I don't have my books either! lol

The change involves the fact that a penalty on the defense on a scoring play would go unpenalized.

A7 breaks away for a 80-yard toucdown run. Five yards past the LOS, B56 takes advantage of A65 with a devasting otherwise legal hit that is ruled unnecessary roughness.

Last year the penalty would be waved off.

This year A can choose to have the penalty enforced from the succeeding spot.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I seem to recall that some years ago, the Federation rule for fouls by the opponent of a team scoring a TD was different. At one time, this foul was enforced on the succeeding free kick--not at the succeeding spot (try). I don't have my old rule books with me, but I'll look into it and get back with a history of the evolution of this rule. To me, the succeeding free kick makes a lot more sense--especially for personal fouls. I can't remember why they went to the "automatically declined" rule.

FYI...In the NCAA rules, any personal fouls committed by the opponent of the team scoring a TD can be enforced from either (a) the succeeding spot (try), or (b) on the succeeding kickoff. Same is true for any non-player/unsportsmanlike fouls during the TD play and for DBFs after the TD and before the ready-for-play.

[sloth]

[

Also, question 4: R1 muffs a free kick at his own 11 yardline. He recovers the loose ball at his own three yardline and his momentum takes him into his own end zone, where he is downed. Choices:
a) Team K scores a safety
b) The ball was dead the moment it crossed the goalline
c) It will be team R's ball at its own three yardline.
d) It will be team R's ball at its own 20 yardline.

ANSWER according to Referee magazine: A

I would like to have responses about momentum rule on free kick and why it does not apply to this situation.

Thank for all responses.

[Edited by jimmiececil on Jul 15th, 2003 at 10:12 PM] [/B]

In my opinion once he muffed the kick he established possession.

A good parallel is if the same thing happened along the side lines. He muffes it out of bounds. Do you penalize K or establish 1st and 10 for the R at the out of bounds spot?

[Ed Hickland]

In my opinion once he muffed the kick he established possession.

A good parallel is if the same thing happened along the side lines. He muffes it out of bounds. Do you penalize K or establish 1st and 10 for the R at the out of bounds spot?

A muff does not establish possession by definition -- A muff is the touching or accidentally kicking of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to secure possession.

As to the parallel 6-1-8 states that a free kick out of bounds "untouched" by R is a penalty.

No parallels there.

[Smiley]

Even if possession is established, the momentum exception does not apply on a recovery.

[sloth]

So is the safety in the original question due to new force? If so then what happens in the follow secnario. R muffs the kick and the muff rolls into the end zone. What if K recovers or R recovers? How about if the original muff goes out of the back of the end zone?

As for the origonal question, if the new force had been introduced by K, what would be the result if the ball goes out of the back of the end zone or is recovered by R or K?

I thought I had it strainght in my head, btu apparenlty I'm not thinking through this right (and my books are at home).

[jfurdell]

Originally posted by sloth
So is the safety in the original question due to new force?

Technically not a new force but the only force, since the R player carried the ball into his own end zone and was downed there. R provided the force that put the ball into the end zone, thus safety.

If so then what happens in the follow secnario. R muffs the kick and the muff rolls into the end zone.

Stop right there. It was a touchback as soon as the kick crossed the goal line. (Since nobody recovered or caught the kick, it's still a kick.)

As for the origonal question, if the new force had been introduced by K, what would be the result if the ball goes out of the back of the end zone or is recovered by R or K?

If K recovers a free kick, the ball becomes dead there immediately. If K (or R) muffs a free kick into the R end zone, it's a touchback (see above). Force is not a factor.

[ABoselli]

Force is never a factor on kicks that go into R's end zone. The kick doesn't end until it is caught, goes OB or crosses the goal line. The ball is dead in the scenario you first submitted, so whether its K or R, it doesn't matter - it's dead, dead, dead.

In the original question, R recovered (picked up the grounded/muffed kick) therefore the kick was over at that point. He then, carried it into the end zone and was downed there - the momentum exception evaporated once the kick touched the ground.

[Smiley]

Remember, the momentum exception is an exception to 8-5-2 that starts out: It's a safety when.... Whenever the momentum exception does not apply, its a safety.